God

[Theebs]

He has spoken. And what He has spoken is the truth. And the clearest and most complete way that He communicated was His Son. And what you do with Him will determine your eternal destiny. He isn't sitting on pins and needles over your or my response to that. In fact, He needs nothing, and that includes us. It is mercy and grace that He has made a way possible for sinful people to be reconciled to Him by the death of His innocent Son. I'm always amazed that the folks who start these threads don't believe. Why start the thread? What bothers you so badly about belief in someone that you say doesn't exist? Compare the threads you have started over God with the threads you have started over Santa Claus. Compare the vitriol that comes out of you over Christ, compared with the attitude you have toward some Super Hero that exists in a comic book. The very hatred that is expressed tells you that there is more at work in the conscience than men will ever admit. Man knows by instinct that there is a judge, and there is a judgment. His conscience tells him so, and that is why he loves to tell himself it isn't true, and to find every so-called friend in the world who can pat him on the back, join in his mocking, and tell him he is right.

For my part, I am a follower of Christ. I have been saved by the grace of God through the death of His Son. I do not deserve the life that He has given me in Christ. If God gave me what I deserve I would perish for my sins. I am the chief of sinners. Completely unworthy in myself to be called a child of God. And yet, by God's mercy, I have been set free.

I have no interest in debating these things. But if anyone ever has an interest in discussing them with an honest heart, I would be happy to do that.

Fingers crossed your not a teacher in a public school.

 

[rcaldw]

Do people realize how many gods there have been before Jesus who had the exact same birth, life, death, and resurrection? At least a dozen. I do believe in God, but I don't believe in this story that he sent his son to die for us. What the hell does that accomplish? The story doesn't make sense and as Judge Judy says, if it doesn't make sense, it isn't true.

The last time I checked I didn't ask to be born. I'm sure as hell not going to be held hostage over my inherent humanity.
Christianity's version of God should have made me different. And he should have killed Satan, not his son. Better yet, he shouldn't have created Satan in the first place.

I could go on and on. There are no logical answers because it's an illogical story.

It's not an illogical story Jon. Its just not a story that makes sense when you begin with mankind (or me or you as an individual) in the center of the picture.

And in terms of all the other gods you have in mind, they do not represent what the Christian gospel does. They just don't. The story of a grace salvation, made possible in such a way that God's justice and mercy are on display in the same substitutionary act, an act that involved an incarnation and voluntary payment by the one offended on behalf of the offenders, is absolutely unique, and it is true.

The Bible's explanation of man's condition is absolutely spot on. Man's thoughts, motives, ambitions, desires, and choices are described in the Bible in a way that is perfect.

Christianity's version of God has provided a way for you to be made different. Satan has been defeated, at the cross. His Son's death was not final, and nor is anyone who knows and loves His Son. And God's original purposes in Creation have less to do with man than with God.

 

[rcaldw]

Fingers crossed your not a teacher in a public school.

Yea man, cause it has all been so good in public education since secularism has been adopted as our nation's official religion.

And by the way, do you see how it always seems to go? Did I insult you? Have I insulted anyone? You are free to disregard what I say, and obviously you do, but why the insults?

No need, friend. Blessings.

 

[Jon88]

I've gone to church my entire life, went to a faith-based rehab this past December through March, and go to a morning church service every weekday from 7:00 - 7:30 am because it's a job requirement and I stand to make a lot of money if I play along.

I want to believe. I really do. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[jeebus]

I've gone to church my entire life, went to a faith-based rehab this past December through March, and go to a morning church service every weekday from 7:00 - 7:30 am because it's a job requirement and I stand to make a lot of money if I play along.

I want to believe. I really do. It just doesn't make sense.

A. Believe in God
B. Get a new job
C. Stop b1tching

Pick 2...

 

[Theebs]

Yea man, cause it has all been so good in public education since secularism has been adopted as our nation's official religion.

And by the way, do you see how it always seems to go? Did I insult you? Have I insulted anyone? You are free to disregard what I say, and obviously you do, but why the insults?

No need, friend. Blessings.

I didn't insult you.

Maybe it's the other way around when you claimed what will happen to our eternal destiny based on your belief and no openness to believe anything else.

 

[rcaldw]

I didn't insult you.

Maybe it's the other way around when you claimed what will happen to our eternal destiny based on your belief and no openness to believe anything else.

Isalm believes I'm wrong and that it has eternal implications. Mormonism believes I'm wrong and that it has eternal implications. Jehovah's witnesses believe I'm wrong and that it has eternal implications. Orthodox Judaism believes I'm wrong and that it has eternal implications. In no case is that a personal insult. It is a truth claim. In addition, in each case their truth claim is based on some authority. Just like mine is a truth claim and it is based on some authority.

My truth claim is based on the Bible, and it is based on the claims contained in that authority by the one whom I follow and the one whom those other groups give some respect to (Christ). It wasn't me who simply decided that, according to the Bible, Christ is the only way to God and to eternal life. According to the Bible that is what Jesus said (John 14:6). He said it in an unambiguous fashion.

Now, one can reject the Bible.
One can reject Christ.
But one cannot believe the Bible and make Jesus out to be someone who claimed that there are many ways to eternal life.

In addition (and I'm sure you know this) according to what I believe to be truth, my telling you (or anyone else) that you are a sinner but that there is a way for full and free forgiveness and a right standing before God forever, is not an act of insult, but an act of love.

 

[superpunk]

Truth claims aren't generally based on fairy tales. I like to base them on, you know...truth.

 

[rcaldw]

Truth claims aren't generally based on fairy tales. I like to base them on, you know...truth.

You have an authority for your truth claims as well. I'm guessing that authority is probably you in most cases. Or, if your authority is objective and external to you, it might be popular consensus, or science, or even the belief that truth doesn't exist (nothing new there, Pilate gave voice to that). Obviously I don't believe that the Bible represents a fairy tale. In fact, its claims about human nature are a lot more accurate than most people's version of truth. Again, people are free to disregard the Bible, and to reject Christ, I simply stated my own beliefs in a thread that asked the question.

 

[superpunk]

Yeah your claim that if we don't get saved we'll be burned eternallyreally has no more punch to it than me claiming that I'd we don't help frodo get the ring to the volcano them sauron will enslave us all.

 

[Theebs]

Isalm believes I'm wrong and that it has eternal implications. Mormonism believes I'm wrong and that it has eternal implications. Jehovah's witnesses believe I'm wrong and that it has eternal implications. Orthodox Judaism believes I'm wrong and that it has eternal implications. In no case is that a personal insult. It is a truth claim. In addition, in each case their truth claim is based on some authority. Just like mine is a truth claim and it is based on some authority.

My truth claim is based on the Bible, and it is based on the claims contained in that authority by the one whom I follow and the one whom those other groups give some respect to (Christ). It wasn't me who simply decided that, according to the Bible, Christ is the only way to God and to eternal life. According to the Bible that is what Jesus said (John 14:6). He said it in an unambiguous fashion.

Now, one can reject the Bible.
One can reject Christ.
But one cannot believe the Bible and make Jesus out to be someone who claimed that there are many ways to eternal life.

In addition (and I'm sure you know this) according to what I believe to be truth, my telling you (or anyone else) that you are a sinner but that there is a way for full and free forgiveness and a right standing before God forever, is not an act of insult, but an act of love.

Thanks.

I love being a sinner.

in fact I am going to go listen to some records backwards to celebrate.

all kidding aside, I really don't care enough to have this discussion.

Besides we both know Jerry is the devil.

 

[rcaldw]

Thanks.

I love being a sinner.

in fact I am going to go listen to some records backwards to celebrate.

all kidding aside, I really don't care enough to have this discussion.

Besides we both know Jerry is the devil.

I'm sure not a fan of most things Jerry does, you are right about that. This is the craziest off season I can remember in a long time.

 

[rcaldw]

Yeah your claim that if we don't get saved we'll be burned eternallyreally has no more punch to it than me claiming that I'd we don't help frodo get the ring to the volcano them sauron will enslave us all.

Yeah, I understand (I think) where you are coming from. Obviously I believe that you are wrong and wish we were in a position where we could sit down one day and have an honest and thoughtful conversation about it. But it is a fan message forum. Just not a good medium for that.

 

[superpunk]

My point was that there are absolutely no facts to back up either claim. So maybe leave the eternal damnation talk back at the cult.

 

[rcaldw]

My point was that there are absolutely no facts to back up either claim. So maybe leave the eternal damnation talk back at the cult.

My point is that I believe you are wrong about your claim that there are no facts to back up either claim. But this isn't the best place to have that conversation. In addition, historic and orthodox Christianity hardly fits the definition of cult that I'm guessing you're implying. In addition, the thread asked a question about God's silence. He hasn't been silent (according to Scripture). But the message isn't what most want to hear.

 

[dbair1967]

SP getting owned again.

 

[superpunk]

He hasn't been silent (according to Scripture). .

Neither has the dark lord sauron.

 

[Jon88]

Neither has the dark lord sauron.

What's up with your avatar? Who is that?

 

[dbair1967]

What's up with your avatar? Who is that?

his lover?

 

[Dodger12]

SP getting owned again.

Well, he is a believer you know.........it's just a tad bit different than what rcaldw is talking about. SP has a different path to salvation and someone's pissing all over it.