Dez's contract situation may turn ugly

[peplaw06]

It was said right here in this thread, that our offense collapses if Dez isn't in it.

Link? I don't think anyone said that. I think you said that... arguing a strawman like you always do.

The offense just collapses without Dez, right? C'mon now.

... shocking...

I say, "no it won't" and all you fanbois go apeshit, claim I am "devaluing" Desmond, all that stupid shit.

I'm not arguing that position, so it's irrelevant. What I'm arguing is that you devalued Dez...

That speaks well to how people can't read for comprehension, or just make it say what they want, or just outright fucking lie about what is said and not at all to what I am actually saying and thinking. More idiots saying the same thing does not reality make.

Ironic... you mean like you're doing?

You just don't know that and can't know until we find out. No one else on the roster has had the opportunities Desmond has. We might well have a hidden superstar or two on this roster at the wideout position.

This is an overly simplistic position.

You can watch players and see who has athletic ability. Dez is an athletic freak who jumps off the film. There are only a handful of guys in history who are as freakish as he is.

And there's no one else at WR who looks like he does. Sure Williams and Beasley have made some nice catches and plays. But I'm not about to say Beasley can make the catches Dez makes... are you? Is Williams going to break the tackles Dez breaks?

Of course, maybe we'll just throw La'el Collins out there and he'll catch everything and blow guys up and just score crazy TDs... I mean you haven't seen that he can't do it? Right??

Nothing I am saying is in any way unreasonable, it simply doesn't echo the Dez worshippers and mindless fanbois and that's why you have issue with it.

Another marginalization and distortion of the other side. Just because people don't want Dez to leave and are worried about the impact on the offense if he does, doesn't mean they "worship" Dez or are "fanbois." Why don't you just stick to what's said instead of distorting everything.

We're all entitled to our opinions.

Sure, you're entitled to your ridiculous and stupid opinion. I'm entitled to say how ridiculous and stupid I think it is.

I've also said it is far less worrisome to me losing Desmond, than it would be losing Tony. And if you deny that, then you're dumber than I thought...

Another strawman. If you want to argue that, then start a thread on "Dez vs. Romo... Who's More Valuable?"

 

[peplaw06]

It does NOT. It merely states FACT. YOU are writing the rest of the fanboi nonsense, into it.

These aren't mutually exclusive. You can state facts that support a position, and you can state facts in an attempt to devalue Dez.

Do you understand that value is a subjective thing based on facts and the opinions of the people in the market?

 

[Doomsday]

Link? I don't think anyone said that. I think you said that... arguing a strawman like you always do.

Like you're trying to do, INFERRING something that wasn't actually said? Except, this whole thread is full of posts predicting doom and gloom if we lose Dez. Here's one such post.

I DID read here somewhere that our offense would collapse without Dez. Not this thread, but some other one. And that's the general consesus which can be FAIRLY inferred by reading this thread.

arguing a strawman like you always do.

It can't be a straw position unless I am claiming someone else argued it, counselor.

What I'm arguing is that you devalued Dez...

Which, clearly I didn't and I even cleared that point up for you mulletheads.

This is an overly simplistic position.

You can watch players and see who has athletic ability. Dez is an athletic freak who jumps off the film. There are only a handful of guys in history who are as freakish as he is.

And there's no one else at WR who looks like he does. Sure Williams and Beasley have made some nice catches and plays. But I'm not about to say Beasley can make the catches Dez makes... are you? Is Williams going to break the tackles Dez breaks?

Of course, maybe we'll just throw La'el Collins out there and he'll catch everything and blow guys up and just score crazy TDs... I mean you haven't seen that he can't do it? Right??

Right, better to be just totally speculative than simple. But here we were all agape at what Miles Austin could suddenly do when given a chance. NFL history is full of such examples and YOU DO NOT KNOW AND CANNOT KNOW if another such example is sitting right there on the roster. You can speculate it is or isn't.

Another marginalization and distortion of the other side.

No, it is just factual. The fanbois love Dez. I neither love him or hate him, I am indifferent to him. This in no way marginalizes the fanbois, it merely correctly defines them.

These aren't mutually exclusive. You can state facts that support a position, and you can state facts in an attempt to devalue Dez.

They are. The "devaluing" part is YOUR OWN CREATION added to what's been actually said.

I do not "devalue" Desmond. I like our chances a lot better if he is on the roster and more than that, happy on the roster.

I merely strongly disagree we'll be hurt really bad, devastated, in purgatory, whatever you want to call it, if he is not here.

 

[Doomsday]

Sure, you're entitled to your ridiculous and stupid opinion. I'm entitled to say how ridiculous and stupid I think it is.

But you are NOT entitled to LIE about the opinion. Which is your stock in trade.

 

[Doomsday]

Is it fair to say we can be 8-8 with or without Dez, or 12-4 with or without Dez?

I think it's not only fair but plausible. BECAUSE THAT IS THE NATURE OF THIS LEAGUE.

This in no way "devalues" anyone.

 

[cmd34]

In a few years, immature Johnny Manziel is going to throw the game winning TD pass to overrated Dez Bryant to win a Super Bowl for the Cowboys and Dooms is going to go sit in his boat (parked in his driveway) and blow his brains out.

 

[Doomsday]

In a few years, immature Johnny Manziel is going to throw the game winning TD pass to overrated Dez Bryant to win a Super Bowl for the Cowboys and Dooms is going to go sit in his boat (parked in his driveway) and blow his brains out.

Thank you, that was a much welcome belly laugh!

Bookmarked!

 

[peplaw06]

Like you're trying to do, INFERRING something that wasn't actually said? Except, this whole thread is full of posts predicting doom and gloom if we lose Dez. Here's one such post.

I DID read here somewhere that our offense would collapse without Dez. Not this thread, but some other one. And that's the general consesus which can be FAIRLY inferred by reading this thread.

Here you go again with the "I NEVER SAID THAT" crutch that you always use. No one SAID you said Dez should be devalued or that you were devaluing him. We merely recognize the game you're playing, and called you out on it. And there's really no question that you are doing it. You can deny it all you want, but everyone sees it.

It can't be a straw position unless I am claiming someone else argued it, counselor.

You JUST CLAIMED that people said our offense would collapse without Dez.

Right, better to be just totally speculative than simple. But here we were all agape at what Miles Austin could suddenly do when given a chance. NFL history is full of such examples and YOU DO NOT KNOW AND CANNOT KNOW if another such example is sitting right there on the roster. You can speculate it is or isn't.

I mean... you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. It's like it's fucking opposite day every time I read something from you. Are you doing a bit?

It's not speculation to say you haven't seen a person do a thing, and therefore the person can't do the thing. That's a statement from what you have witnessed.

YOU'RE the one speculating that the person can do the thing despite not seeing them do it.

Buy a dictionary... or even easier, go to dictionary.com.

They are. The "devaluing" part is YOUR OWN CREATION added to what's been actually said.

This doesn't even make fucking sense. Are you saying if you state "facts," then you by definition cannot be devaluing someone?

I do not "devalue" Desmond. I like our chances a lot better if he is on the roster and more than that, happy on the roster.

I merely strongly disagree we'll be hurt really bad, devastated, in purgatory, whatever you want to call it, if he is not here.

How many times do I have to tell you I'm not arguing that our team or our offense would "collapse" without Dez? All I'm talking about is you devaluing him. Here's as clear as I can make it. Dez thinks he's an elite WR... and most everyone who has seen him play thinks that. He's routinely rated the top 3 WRs in the league. Replacing an elite WR is extremely hard to do, and the market value of an elite WR is high. That's why Dez wants a big pay day. And it's totally understandable.

If you think that Dez's production will just be assumed by the next man up, then you're saying he can be easily replaced. When a player is easily replaceable, then their value is less.

So you are devaluing him.

That's as simple as I can make it. If you don't understand that, then we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not getting sucked into another moronic merry-go-round of Doomsday bullshit.

 

[Doomsday]

You JUST CLAIMED that people said our offense would collapse without Dez.

See, you're dishonest? What you quoted was my response to you saying my greater concern was losing Tony, you called that a straw. It can't be, because I never claimed anyone was arguing that position. Read back. Are you dishonest or just can't hold up your end of the ongoing conversation deal?

Here you go again with the "I NEVER SAID THAT" crutch that you always use. No one SAID you said Dez should be devalued or that you were devaluing him. We merely recognize the game

It was INFERRED, in this thread, as I said. But it was ALSO outright SAID, somewhere here.

It's not speculation to say you haven't seen a person do a thing, and therefore the person can't do the thing. That's a statement from what you have witnessed.

No, I am saying WE DON'T KNOW AND CAN'T KNOW. We can ONLY speculate. Because you haven't seen him do it does NOT mean he cannot.

If you think that Dez's production will just be assumed by the next man up, then you're saying he can be easily replaced.

And.... Nobody ever said that. I said others. That's plural. Mr. Straw.

I'm not getting sucked into another moronic merry-go-round of Doomsday bullshit.

It's your own fault, you were going to "stop engaging" me, remember?

For the last time, I am not nor have ever "devalued" Desmond. Never even thought it. I have made that quite clear. However I am NOT jumping on the bandwagon of doom and gloom if we lose him. That's a perfectly reasonable position. And i also never said YOU were on that bandwagon.



Now, one more time: Is it fair to say we can be 8-8 with or without Dez, or 12-4 with or without Dez?

I think it's not only fair but plausible. BECAUSE THAT IS THE NATURE OF THIS LEAGUE.

This in no way "devalues" anyone.

Desmond will get his money. Might have to play under the tag this year and possibly next, but if the tag is used the third time it is a huge payday - because that rate is based on the top 5 of all positions not just WR. So we talking elite QB money for a year if the tag is used a third time. It won't happen.

It won't come to that. If no deal comes Dez will sign the tag tender and get his 13 mil. He won't even hold out any games. He MIGHT develop the ole sore hamstring bit though. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

Now, one more time: Is it fair to say we can be 8-8 with or without Dez, or 12-4 with or without Dez?

Dez Bryant is going to win you some games. Cowboys don’t beat the Texans without Dez Bryants great catch in over time. He was huge against the Jags. His touchdown catches against the Eagles in Philly won the game for the Cowboys. In Washington he was tremendous. These are just 4 games where his impact was huge. There were a number of other games you could list. The big 3rd down plays in Seattle, the Rams comeback, ect.

Let me ask you this. How many games would have the Cowboys have won last season without Dez Bryant?

 

[Doomsday]

Dez Bryant is going to win you some games. Cowboys don’t beat the Texans without Dez Bryants great catch in over time. He was huge against the Jags. His touchdown catches against the Eagles in Philly won the game for the Cowboys. In Washington he was tremendous. These are just 4 games where his impact was huge. There were a number of other games you could list. The big 3rd down plays in Seattle, the Rams comeback, ect.

I won't dispute any of this. That's all on the record and is history. But we have no way of knowing nor can we possibly know the outcomes of those games, sans Dez because the situation right from kickoff, is different.

Let me ask you this. How many games would have the Cowboys have won last season without Dez Bryant?

Well, you didn't answer my question though.

I asked if it is fair to say we can be 8-8 with or without Dez, or 12-4 with or without Dez. Not anything about last season, that one's done. Not anything about three previous 8-8 years while he was here, that's done too.

I maintain that parity and free agency make this a league where there's not a massive talent difference between the 8-8 teams out there, and the 12-4 ones. The difference for the ones which are consistently in the upper tier is management mostly.

When the perennial 8-8 one flukes off a 12 win season it's mostly just good breaks that year, their talent isn't all that much different from the perennial top finishing teams.

This is by design.

 

[Rock Slamdance]

Dooms equals lulz

 

[Doomsday]

Dooms equals lulz

Yeah I have this dumb theory that if Dez wasn't there we wouldn't be trying to throw to him, but would find some other way to make 300 yards in the passing game. Like, throwing to guys who do have stars on their helmets, who are out there.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

Well, you didn't answer my question though.

I did answer the question. I believe Dez Bryant helps the Cowboys win games, either by blocking, taking coverages away, being a leader or by making dynamic game winning plays.

I brought up last season (or previous seasons) because we can clearly see the impact that Dez Bryant has on the offense. It’s safe to say he will have that same impact this season regardless of the final record.

I do believe in parity and small things can decide games, but i think that proves the importance of having elite players on your team to help push you over the edge.

 

[Doomsday]

I did answer the question. I believe Dez Bryant helps the Cowboys win games, either by blocking, taking coverages away, being a leader or by making dynamic game winning plays.

But.... I never asked about any of that. I am only asking if what I said, is fair to say.

I brought up last season (or previous seasons) because we can clearly see the impact that Dez Bryant has on the offense.

In the games where he has had a impact. There's at least as many, where he hasn't.

It’s safe to say he will have that same impact this season regardless of the final record.

Barring injuries real or imagined, sure.

 

[peplaw06]

See, you're dishonest? What you quoted was my response to you saying my greater concern was losing Tony, you called that a straw. It can't be, because I never claimed anyone was arguing that position. Read back. Are you dishonest or just can't hold up your end of the ongoing conversation deal?

No, that's not what I quoted. Go back and read.

It's your own fault, you were going to "stop engaging" me, remember?

And I should have kept going. It's my fault for responding to you. I just get tired of seeing you pollute the board with your stupidity. You're driving people away, because you have no ability to see reason, and the bullshit is just oozing out of 95% of your posts.

 

[peplaw06]

I have this dumb theory

Acceptance is good for the soul.

 

[Omegasupreme]

How many times do I have to tell you I'm not arguing that our team or our offense would "collapse" without Dez? All I'm talking about is you devaluing him. Here's as clear as I can make it. Dez thinks he's an elite WR... and most everyone who has seen him play thinks that. He's routinely rated the top 3 WRs in the league. Replacing an elite WR is extremely hard to do, and the market value of an elite WR is high. That's why Dez wants a big pay day. And it's totally understandable.

If you think that Dez's production will just be assumed by the next man up, then you're saying he can be easily replaced. When a player is easily replaceable, then their value is less.

So you are devaluing him.

Brings up a good point though, can teams win Super Bowls without the one centerpiece (highly paid, "freakish", and statistically elite in the regular season) WR? Or is money better spent orchestrating the use of several good WRs (fit the scheme, interchangeable with other WRs in offense, and may or may not be emphasized or targeted in any particular game depending on who the opponent is)?

Right now the freak part of Dez is really his hands and his competitiveness.

Sports Science showed how efficient his catching ability is.

He is not the fastest WR by any stretch, not the biggest or tallest or jumps the highest. But over and over, he catches the ball despite being covered, he contorts his body to find the space to catch, he will dive and fight and claw for the ball with most of the other team's DBs surrounding him and in his passion, he will tantrum, run onto the field, and complain to the refs over calls. The Patriots, Seahawks, Ravens, Steelers, Packers, Saints and Colts could only hope for a player like him.

 

[Doomsday]

And I should have kept going. It's my fault for responding to you. I just get tired of seeing you pollute the board with your stupidity. You're driving people away, because you have no ability to see reason, and the bullshit is just oozing out of 95% of your posts.

Total horseshit. It's funny to read though. Dissenting opinions aren't welcome on most sports team boards and I have no doubt you would have banned me a long time ago if you could have. People like you who get all upset over dissenting opinions is exactly what's wrong with sports team boards. You don't like my opinion? Tough noogies.

No, that's not what I quoted. Go back and read.

And, yes it is.

Acceptance is good for the soul.

More dishonesty, clipping my post then trying to make it say something it wasn't.

 

[Doomsday]

Brings up a good point though, can teams win Super Bowls without the one centerpiece (highly paid, "freakish", and statistically elite in the regular season) WR? Or is money better spent orchestrating the use of several good WRs (fit the scheme, interchangeable with other WRs in offense, and may or may not be emphasized or targeted in any particular game depending on who the opponent is)?

I mean, really it's not so much the money since technically Dez is locked up for this year if he signs the tag. I'm just remembering how other teams over the years have lost their star wideout, then somehow manage to still have stellar passing games, continue to somehow beat people, win playoff games and even championships. And this is without signing some other veteran superman or a #1 draftee.

It's never been the end of the world for others, why would it be the end of the world for us?