Dallas Cowboys take Cal QB Jared Goff in Kiper mock draft 2.0

[Doomsday]

These are the harsh historically accurate truths!

Mostly from a completely different era.

 

[MrB]

100% Agree

Too many QBS are ruined by 2 things in my opinion: Lack of coaching/system stability and being thrown into the fire too quickly which causes them to lose confidence.

Alex Smith is another guy that would have really benefitted from being able to sit a year or two.

 

[tonyraye]

Quote Originally Posted by MrB View Post
Tell that to Aaron Rodgers.
Who if you'll recall, pretty much sucked his first year starting but was still clearly their future guy. He didn't come out all-pro or anything.

Doomsday Aaron Rodger's first year as a starter he threw for over 4000 yards with 28 TD's and 13 INTs! He did not make all pro or even the pro bowl, but I would hardly call that "sucking" your first year as a starter.

eading comprehension is your friend. You sound like a lawyer; always leaving part of the facts out to make your case.

I rather clearly said the last 20 years. You of course think you actually know something and proceeded to go all the way back to the 60's.

Well just in case I am going to educate you,

The game has changed MASSIVELY in the last 20 years. Basically since the late 90's when you get right down to it.

SO with alll due Respect Roger and Marino and all those guys more than 20 years back DO NOT COUNT.

You miss my point completely. I am not being a lawyer, I am being scientific. You do not throw away 50+ years of evidence just because technology has advanced or time has passed. So now that we have progressed so far let's just through out the Law of Gravity and all the evidence that supports that, what about everything we know about electricity??? Shall we get rid of that as well?

Yes the game has changed, time has passed but the method is clear (at least to me) that the evidence shows and supports a player either causes your team to struggle for 3 years or a smoother transition after sitting for 1-2 years with less losses to the team record.

Alex Smith is another guy that would have really benefitted from being able to sit a year or two.

Agreed and I feel that Colin Kaepernick might be able to do the same thing as Steve Young, Young played in the USFL and then a few years in Tampa and sat 2-3 years in San Francisco behind Montana, so there is still hope in my eyes but it is fading the longer he waits.

Teams make mistakes. But can minimize them by studying history and watching for noted trends.

This is exactly the point I am trying to make that you are arguing against lol. If it was something computers could do, then they would be doing it without fail. Humans frequently make mistakes and are not perfect, which is what makes the draft so interesting to me.

 

[onlyonenow]

Doomsday Aaron Rodger's first year as a starter he threw for over 4000 yards with 28 TD's and 13 INTs! He did not make all pro or even the pro bowl, but I would hardly call that "sucking" your first year as a starter.




You miss my point completely. I am not being a lawyer, I am being scientific. You do not throw away 50+ years of evidence just because technology has advanced or time has passed. So now that we have progressed so far let's just through out the Law of Gravity and all the evidence that supports that, what about everything we know about electricity??? Shall we get rid of that as well?

Yes the game has changed, time has passed but the method is clear (at least to me) that the evidence shows and supports a player either causes your team to struggle for 3 years or a smoother transition after sitting for 1-2 years with less losses to the team record.




Agreed and I feel that Colin Kaepernick might be able to do the same thing as Steve Young, Young played in the USFL and then a few years in Tampa and sat 2-3 years in San Francisco behind Montana, so there is still hope in my eyes but it is fading the longer he waits.




This is exactly the point I am trying to make that you are arguing against lol. If it was something computers could do, then they would be doing it without fail. Humans frequently make mistakes and are not perfect, which is what makes the draft so interesting to me.

only someone who is not smart enough to understand the game - which you clearly do not- would try and use the 60's as any kind of indicator to a game that has changed massively since then. Not sure you really understand football at all.

But really? You think that the fact that in the last 20 years a clear trend is outweighed by factors from 50 years ago? Just how dense are you?

 

[dbair1967]

Is it ideal to sit and learn? Probably

Is it essential? No. There are plenty of examples of both ways working out.

 

[dgfred]

Right. The factor is whether a QB would have to sit very long with the Cowboys... tho might be playing about the third time Romo is hit.

 

[tonyraye]

only someone who is not smart enough to understand the game - which you clearly do not- would try and use the 60's as any kind of indicator to a game that has changed massively since then. Not sure you really understand football at all.

But really? You think that the fact that in the last 20 years a clear trend is outweighed by factors from 50 years ago? Just how dense are you?

If you are not going to put forth any arguments and just sit there and throw insults at me I will ignore you. So please back up this claim with some evidence, which you have not done as of yet, other than your gigantic intellect.

Is it ideal to sit and learn? Probably

Is it essential? No. There are plenty of examples of both ways working out.

I see more examples of failed QB's being thrown into the fire too quickly and ruined than some of those, which I have mentioned on this post, who are all hall of fame QB's or should be when they retire. I would like to see a list of QB's that have succeeded in their first 3 years and have had great stats. Peyton Manning is one I can think of.

Right. The factor is whether a QB would have to sit very long with the Cowboys... tho might be playing about the third time Romo is hit.

The reality also involves Romos contract, I think he counts $31 million in dead money if he was released this year, $20 million in dead money next year and $8 million in dead money the year after that and $3 million in his final year. So from my view you select a QB with a pick this year, he will sit for 3 years and you get 2 years to see what he does when he signs his rookie contract. But if you select one next year you get 3 years out of him if you pick up the first round option on his contract, which is a much better situation in my opinion.

 

[MrB]

If you are not going to put forth any arguments and just sit there and throw insults at me I will ignore you. So please back up this claim with some evidence, which you have not done as of yet, other than your gigantic intellect.


I see more examples of failed QB's being thrown into the fire too quickly and ruined than some of those, which I have mentioned on this post, who are all hall of fame QB's or should be when they retire. I would like to see a list of QB's that have succeeded in their first 3 years and have had great stats. Peyton Manning is one I can think of.




The reality also involves Romos contract, I think he counts $31 million in dead money of he was released this year, $20 million in dead money next year and $8 million in dead money the year after that and $3 million in his final year. So from my view you select a QB with a pick this year, he will sit for 3 years and you get 2 years to see what he does when he signs his rookie contract. But if you select one next year you get 3 years out of him if you pick up the first round option on his contract, which is a much better situation in my opinion.

That's why I say that Romo's realistic window is 2 years. They will be able to escape the contract after two more years if he does not retire at that time.

 

[tonyraye]

That's why I say that Romo's realistic window is 2 years. They will be able to escape the contract after two more years if he does not retire at that time.

Possibly, I cannot predict if he will retire or not. But if he is released after 2 years, he still counts 8 million against the cap, which is not ideal.

 

[cmd34]

Possibly, I cannot predict if he will retire or not. But if he is released after 2 years, he still counts 8 million against the cap, which is not ideal.

That is $8.9M in dead money versus a 2018 cap hit of $25.2M. We'd gain $16.3M in cap room. Romo will be 36 going into this season, coming off recurring back and collarbone injuries. If he can make it 2 more years, I'd be pleasantly surprised.

 

[MrB]

Possibly, I cannot predict if he will retire or not. But if he is released after 2 years, he still counts 8 million against the cap, which is not ideal.

Not ideal but very manageable.

 

[MrB]

That is $8.9M in dead money versus a 2018 cap hit of $25.2M. We'd gain $16.3M in cap room. Romo will be 36 going into this season, coming off recurring back and collarbone injuries. If he can make it 2 more years, I'd be pleasantly surprised.

I have my doubts that he will actually play that long. He will without a doubt at least be on the team until then though.

I think once FA actually starts we will see how the team views Tony. If they restructure his contract to free up some cap space then they fully believe Tony has 5 more years like Jerry was saying, and I don't think they will draft a QB. If they leave his contract alone though then that lets me know they believe Tony is at the end of his career within the next two years. I also think if they do not restructure his contract it's a clear sign that a QB will be drafted.

 

[tonyraye]

That is $8.9M in dead money versus a 2018 cap hit of $25.2M. We'd gain $16.3M in cap room. Romo will be 36 going into this season, coming off recurring back and collarbone injuries. If he can make it 2 more years, I'd be pleasantly surprised.

Yes it will be difficult for him and I'd be surprised as well, but that is part of taking a risk in making a decision in the NFL. Jerry thinks he can play 3-4 more years and this is Jerry's pet and has been for a while. Until he falls apart like, Aikman, E. Smith and M. Irvin, Jerry will hold on to him as long as he is productive.

 

[dbair1967]

I see more examples of failed QB's being thrown into the fire too quickly and ruined than some of those, which I have mentioned on this post, who are all hall of fame QB's or should be when they retire. I would like to see a list of QB's that have succeeded in their first 3 years and have had great stats. Peyton Manning is one I can think of.
.

You are not taking into account those team's particular situations. Most QB's drafted high go to bad teams. Even if they are "ready" to play, they may not be overly successful because the rest of the team is poor.

 

[onlyonenow]

too draft in the top 5 means you stank it up. Now one could argue the Boys and San Diego just had very bad years but the Titans and Browns have been bad for a long time. Most of the QB busts have gone to bad teams. David Carr was destroyed by the stupidity of the Texans GM for not trying to build a O line. That is far from unique though; going o a bad team usually means bad play one way or another. Poor coaching, etc can also contribute. A rookie QB needs a really good QB coach and there are not many of them around. That is one reason I want as polished a QB as we can get; because I frankly have no faith in our staff being able to develope one. I think Wilson should have been gone years ago. Now one good thing for any QB coming here is Tony will be around for at least a couple of years and HE can teach the young pup a lot. Now after Tony is gone? Ouch.

 

[bbgun]

now they're alarmed by his tiny hands and fumbles at Cal.

 

[tonyraye]

You are not taking into account those team's particular situations. Most QB's drafted high go to bad teams. Even if they are "ready" to play, they may not be overly successful because the rest of the team is poor.

too draft in the top 5 means you stank it up. Now one could argue the Boys and San Diego just had very bad years but the Titans and Browns have been bad for a long time. Most of the QB busts have gone to bad teams. David Carr was destroyed by the stupidity of the Texans GM for not trying to build a O line. That is far from unique though; going o a bad team usually means bad play one way or another. Poor coaching, etc can also contribute. A rookie QB needs a really good QB coach and there are not many of them around. That is one reason I want as polished a QB as we can get; because I frankly have no faith in our staff being able to develope one. I think Wilson should have been gone years ago. Now one good thing for any QB coming here is Tony will be around for at least a couple of years and HE can teach the young pup a lot. Now after Tony is gone? Ouch.

This is a massive reason why a young QB needs time to develop. 1st year QB needs to learn a system, learn about the NFL, learn how to be a professional and learn how to deal with all the off field problems he will face, like family asking for money or the pressure of being a QB in the NFL etc. I think it would be easier for them to sit for 1-2 years and let the team draft a few offensive linemen or a running back or get stronger defensive players etc plus you do not have to deal with all the picks you are going to throw because of bad reads, poor receiver routes or bad line protection, which will affect your confidence.

A team will find it difficult to rebuild multiple areas in one year, these things take time. Another major issue is coaching changes, if your team changes coaches every 2-3 years, that means you are learning anew system and getting used to new personnel every few years, which is also not ideal. A team needs to have faith in their decision making ability and give these coaches time (at least 5 years) to implement their system and hopefully get they players they need. Remember on most teams coaches do not have final say on their players or who is drafted or released/resigned.

The Cowboys are best served, as they always have been, by having a balanced offense. A strong running game with a good passing game. This will give the defense more rest and make them better. They never have been successful any other way, it's just their identity

 

[MrB]

now they're alarmed by his tiny hands and fumbles at Cal.

I wonder how the size of his hands compare to Romo's. For what it's worth Wentz had the second largest hands at the Senior Bowl. I think I remember them saying his hands measured in at just under 11 inches.

 

[ThoughtExperiment]

Like a show was saying earlier, some of the largest hands in the NFL belong to Ryan Mallett.

Some of the smallest in his class, Derek Carr.

Some of this stuff is so overrated.

 

[onlyonenow]

Like a show was saying earlier, some of the largest hands in the NFL belong to Ryan Mallett.

Some of the smallest in his class, Derek Carr.

Some of this stuff is so overrated.

amazing how some get fixated on something so minor.