Dallas Cowboys Cornerback Nolan Carroll Arrested for Suspicion of DWI

[MrB]

That's why there's no such thing as "coverage sacks" right?

If the QB has nowhere to go with the ball, he is going to either have to run, or eat it. No matter how good your frontend is.
They are not mediocre and you completely proved my point - Seattle has a pretty good pass rush, BECAUSE of that elite backend.

QBs are still going to get their passes off, regardless of the quality of the defensive front, if you have s shit secondary.

We're going nowhere with this argument man. There is no way you will ever convince me that a shitty pass rush is fine as long as you have good corners.

And no I didn't prove your point. I proved mine. A great pass rush turned mediocre CB's who were drafted in the mid/late rounds (Sherman and Norman) into pro bowlers (Larry Brown is an older example). You're not trying to tell me that Larry Brown is the reason Charles Haley, Leon Lett, Tolbert, and the rest of that Cowboys from 7 is the reason they were great are you?

 

[cmd34]

Both are essential. My issue is that the spread concepts that have crept into the NFL have helped turn the pass rush into less of a factor. In the Super Bowl, Ryan and Brady were getting rid of the ball so quick that the opposing team could have had Bruce Smith, Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, and Randy White rushing and it wouldn't have impacted a damn thing.

I think a lot of fans see Aaron Rodgers having all of the time in the world and automatically assume it's the lack of pass rush. Aaron Rodgers does that against great pass rushes. If we would have beaten Green Bay, Atlanta's passing attack would have killed us. Ryan (Kyle Shanahan's offense) is making a quick read and throwing. If guys can't cover, teams will pick us apart before a good pass rusher can get by an O Lineman.

Also, we did almost nothing to improve the pass rush OR the secondary this year. We got cheaper and younger, but lost a ton of experience. The team keeps talking about Taco at RDE and I don't think he's going to be effective there, it's not what he does best.

 

[MrB]

Both are essential. My issue is that the spread concepts that have crept into the NFL have helped turn the pass rush into less of a factor. In the Super Bowl, Ryan and Brady were getting rid of the ball so quick that the opposing team could have had Bruce Smith, Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, and Randy White rushing and it wouldn't have impacted a damn thing.

I think a lot of fans see Aaron Rodgers having all of the time in the world and automatically assume it's the lack of pass rush. Aaron Rodgers does that against great pass rushes. If we would have beaten Green Bay, Atlanta's passing attack would have killed us. Ryan (Kyle Shanahan's offense) is making a quick read and throwing. If guys can't cover, teams will pick us apart before a good pass rusher can get by an O Lineman.

Also, we did almost nothing to improve the pass rush OR the secondary this year. We got cheaper and younger, but lost a ton of experience. The team keeps talking about Taco at RDE and I don't think he's going to be effective there, it's not what he does best.

You're right both are important I just prefer the team to build from the inside out as I stated before. Sure there are some QB's that can get the ball out quick but if that was the case 100% of the time those guys would never get sacked. "Coverage sacks" are a very small number compared to sacks caused by the DL just getting to the QB by beating their man.

 

[theoneandonly]

I think a lot of fans see Aaron Rodgers having all of the time in the world and automatically assume it's the lack of pass rush.

It was in the 2014 playoff loss for sure. Rodgers was out there gimping around on one leg and the Cowboys lost because they couldnt get him on the ground. Any kind of pass rush at all they win that game. Last years loss I spread the blame more evenly. The play at the end of the game to the TE on the sideline was an elite QB picking on a below average secondary, but the pass rush certainly did not help. I am not even going to address the whole Red having Dak spike the ball incident, thats a whole other discussion.

 

[Doomsday]

There is no way you will ever convince me that a shitty pass rush is fine as long as you have good corners.

That's not my meter at all. Move the goalposts when you can't make the kick?

 

[Doomsday]

Sure there are some QB's that can get the ball out quick but if that was the case 100% of the time

Nobody said it was the case 100 percent of the time. Just in crunch time, late in games where the pass rush gets completely nullified if you have shit for a secondary.

You're right both are important I just prefer the team to build from the inside out as I stated before.

What you stated before which we are proving wrong is, you're saying our rookie secondary "will be okay" if we can magically develop a "elite pass rush" and nothing could be further from the truth. They will NOT be "okay" if they cannot fucking cover!

 

[MrB]

Nobody said it was the case 100 percent of the time. Just in crunch time, late in games where the pass rush gets completely nullified if you have shit for a secondary.
What you stated before which we are proving wrong is, you're saying our rookie secondary "will be okay" if we can magically develop a "elite pass rush" and nothing could be further from the truth. They will NOT be "okay" if they cannot fucking cover!

How do you know they can't cover? You haven't even seen them play yet. Or is that just your "glass is half empty" outlook? I stand by what I said, if these guys had an elite pass rush in front of them they WOULD be ok. I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong by the way. So far you have failed.

 

[English Cowboy]

How do you know they can't cover?

He doesn't. That's why he used the word 'if'.

They will NOT be "okay" if they cannot fucking cover!

 

[MrB]

He doesn't. That's why he used the word 'if'.

So he's then saying that they WILL be ok if they can then. So we all agree.

 

[Doomsday]

How do you know they can't cover?

No one said they couldn't cover. Do you understand the use and meaning of the word "if?" Or is it just a habit of yours to ignore such usage?

You however have assumed they can cover, at least some - since you keep saying they will be "okay" if we magically develop a "elite pass rush." You can't possibly know if they will be "okay" or not, pass rush or no.

You put WAY too much emphasis on the pass rush, a part of the game that by nature is not consistent, and also gets nullified in the last 5 minutes of games against the better teams, when the chips are down. In that situation, you NEED to be able to cover people.

 

[Doomsday]

So he's then saying that they WILL be ok if they can then

IF they can cover, of course they will be "okay." That's of course, depending on the definition of "okay." No doubt, you believe the secondary the last several years has been "okay?"

 

[Doomsday]

Or is that just your "glass is half empty" outlook?

Outlook is 8-8, that's what this team is. Personnel on the defensive side of the ball coupled with the most do-nothing special teams the last 10 years ever, keeps it that way.

 

[spiderfan_MJ]

Outlook is 8-8, that's what this team is. Personnel on the defensive side of the ball coupled with the most do-nothing special teams the last 10 years ever, keeps it that way.

Not to mention one of the worst HC/OC combos in the league. Seriously after the 4-12 both should have been canned.