Bumped for Lazarus_Logan

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

This is going to be tough to find. Everytime I google Martellus's name, it yeilds results for naked pictures and ignorant Youtube videos.

Hardly. They offer sections for those. You're copping out.

 

[Sheik]

Hardly. They offer sections for those. You're copping out.

No, I'm trying to find it.

I'll bet his drop/thrown at ratio is highest on the team for Tight Ends.

 

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

I think I'll stay up and watch the freak show you're creating. Thanks though.

Fine. Just shut up then. You bring nothing to this discussion. You got to resort to name calling when you get punked, because you didn't know what you were talking about.

 

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

No, I'm trying to find it.

I'll bet his drop/thrown at ratio is highest on the team.

Wait a minute. First you went from FACT, to now I bet... ok... bring it on.

 

[Jon88]

Fine. Just shut up then. You bring nothing to this discussion. You got to resort to name calling when you get punked, because you didn't know what you were talking about.

You've clearly got some issues.

 

[Sheik]

You're a god damned fool if you think Martellus is some great TE. John Phillips is our #2 if he doesn't blow out his knee. I'm still looking, so far all I can find is the top 20 list.

 

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

You've clearly got some issues.

What are they? You make some bullshit claims, and then I challenge you to provide proof to thiose claims, and I'm the one with issues? Because I simply will not take your word for it?

 

[Cr122]

Dallas Cowboys and the 2 TE Formation: Yet Another Winning Proposition

Captain_tiny by One.Cool.Customer on May 13, 2010 4:00 PM CDT Comment 68 comments

One of the buzz-words of the 2009 off-season was the two tight end set, or 12 personnel as the coaches call it. After a couple of games into the season, the buzz started to die down pretty fast as it became apparent that Martellus Bennett was struggling as a receiver.

The Cowboys however remained undeterred in calling the two tight end set, and used the formation as a staple in the running game, where the blocking skills of all three tight ends were put to good use. The NFL does not record any stats for tight ends outside of pass receiving, so how can we measure how successful the formation was for the Cowboys in 2009?

Well, if you can't measure it directly, you have to use an indirect method of observation, and measure the effect the formation has on other, statistically covered aspects of the game. We'll do this by looking at the Cowboys' running game, specifically the running game out of the two tight end set.

Star-divide

During training camp last year, Tony Romo sounded excited by the possibilities of the two tight end (2 TE) set:

Any time you can get two tight ends in the game, it’s very difficult on a defensive coordinator, personnel-wise, to decide what he’s going to play. A lot of the time when you have three receivers and a tight end, it’s more of a pass-type formation. But with two tight ends, you can run the ball every bit as well as you can with a fullback in the game sometimes, because they have to be conscious of their play-calling defensively. Offensively, you can do a lot of stuff out of it.

ESPN.com provides splits by TE formation for every running back in the league. According to those stats, both Felix Jones and Tashard Choice had a significantly higher YPA out of the 2TE set than their overall average, while Marion Barber remained basically flat.


Marion Barber Felix Jones Tashard Choice

ATT Yards YPA ATT Yards YPA ATT Yards YPA
All formations
214 932 4.4 116 685 5.9 64 349 5.5
2 TE set
81 356 4.4 44 288 6.5 32 248 7.8
Non 2TE set
133 576 4.3 72 397 5.5 32 101 3.2

One of the reasons Barber's numbers are lower than the others RBs is because of the types of runs he was used for: 23% of Barbers' runs came in distance-to-go situations of 1-3 yards. Choice had 19% and Jones only 10% of his runs in those situations. Additionally, in terms of direction, 58% of Barber's runs went up the middle or at either of the guards. Not much that a second TE could do to help in those situations. By contrast, only 38% of Jones' runs were run at center or guard, his outside runs are where the extra TE was a real help.

Obviously, a tight end will only be able to help in the run game if he can actually block. And boy, can the Cowboys tight ends block! According to Profootballfocus.com, Jason Witten graded out as the best tight end in the league with an absolutely dominant performance as a run blocker.

Martellus Bennet's performance was overshadowed by what many felt was a disappointing receiving performance, but what is often overlooked is his contribution as a blocker. PFF grade Marty B as the fifth best blocking TE in the league. 12th on the list, despite a low snap count, is rookie John Philips. Here's how PFF graded the Cowboys tight ends in pass blocking.

NFL Rank
Player Run Block grade
1 Jason Witten 15.2
5 Martellus Bennett 8.2
12 John Phillips 3.8

The tight end is the catalyst for most off-tackle and outside runs. On these runs the tight end will often be at the exact point where the ball is being run and his block will determine the success or failure of the play. Why is that good? Coach Wade Phillips knows why:

It’s harder (for the defense) to match up when it’s two good tight ends, and that’s what we have. We have one certainly outstanding one in Witten. Maybe the top one in the league in Witten, and Martellus shows up every day. Every day, you see him make a play.

So how do the Cowboys RBs compare with the rest of the league? There were 52 running backs in the league last year with at least 30 or more runs out of the 2 TE set. Tashard Choice and Felix Jones rank number one and two in terms of YPA among these running backs, Marion Barber ranks 24th. Here are the top 10:

Runs out of the 2 TE set
No Name Team ATT Yards YPA
1 Tashard Choice Cowboys 32 248 7.8
2 Felix Jones
Cowboys 44 288 6.5
3 Ahmad Bradshaw
Giants 50 305 6.1
4 Pierre Thomas
Saints 60 364 6.1
5 Jonathan Stewart
Panthers 91 518 5.7
6 Frank Gore
49ers 95 539 5.7
7 Jerome Harrison
Browns 77 432 5.6
8 Thomas Jones
Jets 120 661 5.5
9 Tim Hightower
Cardinals 51 268 5.3
10 Correll Buckhalter
Broncos 56 294 5.3

Ok, so Dallas has some of the best blocking TEs in the league, as well as two of the best RBs to run the 2 TE set. It shouldn't come as a big surprise then to see that the Cowboys had the best YPA out of the 2 TE set in the league last year. Below is a look at all 32 teams, and the success of their running games out of the 2 TE set (click column header to sort)

Team Total ATT Total Yards Total YPA 2 TE ATT 2 TE Yards 2 TE YPA 2TE ATT in % Total ATT 2TE Yards in % Totals Yards
DAL 436 2103 4.8 163 900 5.5 37% 43%
NYJ 607 2756 4.5 192 986 5.1 31% 36%
BUF 424 1867 4.4 186 927 5.0 44% 50%
GB 438 1885 4.3 119 582 4.9 27% 31%
CLE 498 2087 4.2 169 813 4.8 34% 39%
MIA 509 2231 4.4 197 930 4.7 39% 42%
CAR 525 2498 4.8 201 948 4.7 38% 38%
DEN 440 1836 4.2 187 872 4.7 42% 48%
SF 371 1600 4.3 156 721 4.6 42% 45%
JAC 447 2029 4.5 147 677 4.6 33% 33%
STL 411 1784 4.3 118 538 4.6 29% 30%
NYG 443 1837 4.1 147 649 4.4 22% 35%
TEN 499 2592 5.2 146 644 4.4 30% 25%
CIN 505 2056 4.1 187 819 4.4 37% 40%
ARI 365 1494 4.1 132 566 4.3 36% 38%
MIN 467 1918 4.1 166 710 4.3 35% 37%
NE 466 1921 4.1 194 828 4.3 42% 43%
NO 468 2106 4.5 188 800 4.3 40% 38%
PHI 384 1637 4.3 100 420 4.2 26% 26%
BAL 468 2200 4.7 132 541 4.1 28% 25%
OAK 410 1701 4.1 158 637 4.0 38% 37%
WAS 391 1508 3.9 134 533 4.0 34% 35%
KC 438 1929 4.4 82 311 3.8 19% 16%
TB 403 1625 4.0 168 631 3.8 42% 39%
PIT 428 1793 4.2 144 521 3.6 34% 30%
IND 366 1294 3.5 91 319 3.5 25% 25%
HOU 425 1475 3.5 139 487 3.5 33% 33%
ATL 451 1876 4.2 167 573 3.4 37% 31%
DET 409 1616 3.9 108 370 3.4 26% 23%
SEA 395 1566 4.0 64 216 3.4 16% 14%
SD 427 1423 3.3 158 531 3.4 37% 38%
CHI 373 1492 4.0 129 423 3.3 35% 28%

The numbers above make it clear that the 2 TE set is far from a secret in the NFL. A third of the runs in the league last year were run of of the 2 TE set. Yet some teams did very well out of this formation and others didn't.

Watch for the Cowboys to maintain a fairly high YPA out of the running game next season, thanks in part to a continued use of the 2 TE set. Also, don't be too surprised if the Cowboys end up with four TEs on their roster next season

 

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

You're a god damned fool if you think Martellus is some great TE.

He's better than John Phillips, whom you think is some great TE.

John Phillips is our #2 if he doesn't blow out his knee. I'm still looking, so far all I can find is the top 20 list.

WRONG. Phillips only got his opportunity because Bennett was out with a hurt ankle.

 

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

Dallas Cowboys and the 2 TE Formation: Yet Another Winning Proposition

Captain_tiny by One.Cool.Customer on May 13, 2010 4:00 PM CDT Comment 68 comments

One of the buzz-words of the 2009 off-season was the two tight end set, or 12 personnel as the coaches call it. After a couple of games into the season, the buzz started to die down pretty fast as it became apparent that Martellus Bennett was struggling as a receiver.

The Cowboys however remained undeterred in calling the two tight end set, and used the formation as a staple in the running game, where the blocking skills of all three tight ends were put to good use. The NFL does not record any stats for tight ends outside of pass receiving, so how can we measure how successful the formation was for the Cowboys in 2009?

Well, if you can't measure it directly, you have to use an indirect method of observation, and measure the effect the formation has on other, statistically covered aspects of the game. We'll do this by looking at the Cowboys' running game, specifically the running game out of the two tight end set.

Star-divide

During training camp last year, Tony Romo sounded excited by the possibilities of the two tight end (2 TE) set:

Any time you can get two tight ends in the game, it’s very difficult on a defensive coordinator, personnel-wise, to decide what he’s going to play. A lot of the time when you have three receivers and a tight end, it’s more of a pass-type formation. But with two tight ends, you can run the ball every bit as well as you can with a fullback in the game sometimes, because they have to be conscious of their play-calling defensively. Offensively, you can do a lot of stuff out of it.

ESPN.com provides splits by TE formation for every running back in the league. According to those stats, both Felix Jones and Tashard Choice had a significantly higher YPA out of the 2TE set than their overall average, while Marion Barber remained basically flat.


Marion Barber Felix Jones Tashard Choice

ATT Yards YPA ATT Yards YPA ATT Yards YPA
All formations
214 932 4.4 116 685 5.9 64 349 5.5
2 TE set
81 356 4.4 44 288 6.5 32 248 7.8
Non 2TE set
133 576 4.3 72 397 5.5 32 101 3.2

One of the reasons Barber's numbers are lower than the others RBs is because of the types of runs he was used for: 23% of Barbers' runs came in distance-to-go situations of 1-3 yards. Choice had 19% and Jones only 10% of his runs in those situations. Additionally, in terms of direction, 58% of Barber's runs went up the middle or at either of the guards. Not much that a second TE could do to help in those situations. By contrast, only 38% of Jones' runs were run at center or guard, his outside runs are where the extra TE was a real help.

Obviously, a tight end will only be able to help in the run game if he can actually block. And boy, can the Cowboys tight ends block! According to Profootballfocus.com, Jason Witten graded out as the best tight end in the league with an absolutely dominant performance as a run blocker.

Martellus Bennet's performance was overshadowed by what many felt was a disappointing receiving performance, but what is often overlooked is his contribution as a blocker. PFF grade Marty B as the fifth best blocking TE in the league. 12th on the list, despite a low snap count, is rookie John Philips. Here's how PFF graded the Cowboys tight ends in pass blocking.

NFL Rank
Player Run Block grade
1 Jason Witten 15.2
5 Martellus Bennett 8.2
12 John Phillips 3.8

The tight end is the catalyst for most off-tackle and outside runs. On these runs the tight end will often be at the exact point where the ball is being run and his block will determine the success or failure of the play. Why is that good? Coach Wade Phillips knows why:

It’s harder (for the defense) to match up when it’s two good tight ends, and that’s what we have. We have one certainly outstanding one in Witten. Maybe the top one in the league in Witten, and Martellus shows up every day. Every day, you see him make a play.

So how do the Cowboys RBs compare with the rest of the league? There were 52 running backs in the league last year with at least 30 or more runs out of the 2 TE set. Tashard Choice and Felix Jones rank number one and two in terms of YPA among these running backs, Marion Barber ranks 24th. Here are the top 10:

Runs out of the 2 TE set
No Name Team ATT Yards YPA
1 Tashard Choice Cowboys 32 248 7.8
2 Felix Jones
Cowboys 44 288 6.5
3 Ahmad Bradshaw
Giants 50 305 6.1
4 Pierre Thomas
Saints 60 364 6.1
5 Jonathan Stewart
Panthers 91 518 5.7
6 Frank Gore
49ers 95 539 5.7
7 Jerome Harrison
Browns 77 432 5.6
8 Thomas Jones
Jets 120 661 5.5
9 Tim Hightower
Cardinals 51 268 5.3
10 Correll Buckhalter
Broncos 56 294 5.3

Ok, so Dallas has some of the best blocking TEs in the league, as well as two of the best RBs to run the 2 TE set. It shouldn't come as a big surprise then to see that the Cowboys had the best YPA out of the 2 TE set in the league last year. Below is a look at all 32 teams, and the success of their running games out of the 2 TE set (click column header to sort)

Team Total ATT Total Yards Total YPA 2 TE ATT 2 TE Yards 2 TE YPA 2TE ATT in % Total ATT 2TE Yards in % Totals Yards
DAL 436 2103 4.8 163 900 5.5 37% 43%
NYJ 607 2756 4.5 192 986 5.1 31% 36%
BUF 424 1867 4.4 186 927 5.0 44% 50%
GB 438 1885 4.3 119 582 4.9 27% 31%
CLE 498 2087 4.2 169 813 4.8 34% 39%
MIA 509 2231 4.4 197 930 4.7 39% 42%
CAR 525 2498 4.8 201 948 4.7 38% 38%
DEN 440 1836 4.2 187 872 4.7 42% 48%
SF 371 1600 4.3 156 721 4.6 42% 45%
JAC 447 2029 4.5 147 677 4.6 33% 33%
STL 411 1784 4.3 118 538 4.6 29% 30%
NYG 443 1837 4.1 147 649 4.4 22% 35%
TEN 499 2592 5.2 146 644 4.4 30% 25%
CIN 505 2056 4.1 187 819 4.4 37% 40%
ARI 365 1494 4.1 132 566 4.3 36% 38%
MIN 467 1918 4.1 166 710 4.3 35% 37%
NE 466 1921 4.1 194 828 4.3 42% 43%
NO 468 2106 4.5 188 800 4.3 40% 38%
PHI 384 1637 4.3 100 420 4.2 26% 26%
BAL 468 2200 4.7 132 541 4.1 28% 25%
OAK 410 1701 4.1 158 637 4.0 38% 37%
WAS 391 1508 3.9 134 533 4.0 34% 35%
KC 438 1929 4.4 82 311 3.8 19% 16%
TB 403 1625 4.0 168 631 3.8 42% 39%
PIT 428 1793 4.2 144 521 3.6 34% 30%
IND 366 1294 3.5 91 319 3.5 25% 25%
HOU 425 1475 3.5 139 487 3.5 33% 33%
ATL 451 1876 4.2 167 573 3.4 37% 31%
DET 409 1616 3.9 108 370 3.4 26% 23%
SEA 395 1566 4.0 64 216 3.4 16% 14%
SD 427 1423 3.3 158 531 3.4 37% 38%
CHI 373 1492 4.0 129 423 3.3 35% 28%

The numbers above make it clear that the 2 TE set is far from a secret in the NFL. A third of the runs in the league last year were run of of the 2 TE set. Yet some teams did very well out of this formation and others didn't.

Watch for the Cowboys to maintain a fairly high YPA out of the running game next season, thanks in part to a continued use of the 2 TE set. Also, don't be too surprised if the Cowboys end up with four TEs on their roster next season

You presenting a BLOGGER as PROOF? GWET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!:fap

 

[Cr122]

According to that Bennett is the better blocker, but in no way is he better than Witten.

I myself do like Phillips better, but by going by this it shows Bennett is the better blocker in the two tight end formation.

 

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

You're a god damned fool if you think Martellus is some great TE. John Phillips is our #2 if he doesn't blow out his knee. I'm still looking, so far all I can find is the top 20 list.

Well what games did he have all of these drops, sicne they are FACTS, according to you. I want to see some footage.

 

[Cr122]

You presenting a BLOGGER as PROOF? GWET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!:fap

What else you suppose to use Urkel?

 

[Sheik]

Ok Laz, found one site, not saying this is gospel stuff here, but like I said, it's the only site I found.

Witten: Thrown at 121 times with 6 drops

Bennett: Thrown at 29 times with 6 drops

Phillips: Thrown at 7 times with 0 drops.

You're welcome to check it out. The chart is half way down the page and has all 3 players and their stats. Could be off a little here or there, I found one site that had both Miles and Witten targeted 124 times, I guess it varies from stat keeper to stat keeper.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ining-camp-martellus-bennett-vs-john-phillips

 

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

According to that Bennett is the better blocker, but in no way is he better than Witten.

I myself do like Phillips better, but by going by this it shows Bennett is the better blocker in the two tight end formation.

He is better than Witten. Look, Witten is the best all around TE in the league, but I get it: Wadesays that Bennett is the better blocker than Witten, but you bring up a blogger who says different and I'm supposed to take that as the gospel, and yet that same blogger lists Phillips 7 spaces down from Bennett on the blocking scale and yet you maintain that Phillips is still better...? !!! GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE AGAIN!

 

[Sheik]

Well what games did he have all of these drops, sicne they are FACTS, according to you. I want to see some footage.

If finding the stats aren't enough for you, maybe I can re-watch every game last year and pick out 6 drops once I sift through 600+ offensive plays.

Go fuck yourself if the proof I submitted isn't fact enough for you.

 

[Cr122]

Season Rec Yds Avg TD
2009 15 159 10.6 0

Season Rec Yds Avg TD
2008 20 283 14.2 4


Wow, that is some smoking fucking numbers right there. lol

 

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

Ok Laz, found one site, not saying this is gospel stuff here, but like I said, it's the only site I found.

Witten: Thrown at 121 times with 6 drops

Bennett: Thrown at 29 times with 6 drops

Phillips: Thrown at 7 times with 0 drops.

You're welcome to check it out. The chart is half way down the page and has all 3 players and their stats. Could be off a little here or there, I found one site that had both Miles and Witten targeted 124 times, I guess it varies from stat keeper to stat keeper.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ining-camp-martellus-bennett-vs-john-phillips

THE BLEACHER REPORT...? ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? No knowledgeable football fan takes anything seruious from the bleacher report. ONce again! You said it was a TON! Or alot... you had FACTS. I asked you to provide FOOTAGE! What games did he have these drops?

 

[LAZARUS_LOGAN]

What else you suppose to use Urkel?

Anybody can make a blog. You could have made that blog. It doesn't make your claim valid. Using somebody else's opinion to validate your opinion?

 

[Cr122]

He is better than Witten. Look, Witten is the best all around TE in the league, but I get it: Wadesays that Bennett is the better blocker than Witten, but you bring up a blogger who says different and I'm supposed to take that as the gospel, and yet that same blogger lists Phillips 7 spaces down from Bennett on the blocking scale and yet you maintain that Phillips is still better...? !!! GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE AGAIN!

Yeah , that's what I think.