Aqib Talib?

[RoyTheHammer]

Number of wins is arbitrary in this discussion. We went from playing the NFC and AFC West teams in 2005 to playing the NFC and AFC South in 2006. We went from losing to St Louis, Seattle, and Oakland to beating Indy, Atlanta, Carolina and Tennessee. Don't pretend we didn't improve between the 2005 and 2006 season just because you can't see it in the record. Our schedule strength increased between the two seasons and the team played better with TO than they did the previous season with Keyshawn.

So it was TO that made us the team we were in 2007? Not any of the other changes or improvements that were made?

In 2006, Terry Glenn put up similar numbers in catches and yards to TO. In 2007, Witten had more catches and almost as many yards as TO.

The biggest reason for our improvement from 2005 to 2007.. BY FAR? Replacing Drew Bledsoe with Tony Romo.

2 of the 3 years TO was here we went 9-7, the same record we had the year before he got here.

And hey guess what? Our first season after getting rid of TO we won our division and won our first playoff game in 15 years. (That was also when we got rid of Tank and Pac Man as well btw)

Guess he was really vital to our success though.. wake me up when the next episode of the TOcho show starts, ok?

 

[Cythim]

So now you are agreeing that we did improve with Owens? I love how you just alter your arguments every time I show you how wrong you are. I am not arguing the contributing factors to our improvements in 2006 and 2007, just the fact that T.O. was one of those factors and that we did go to "the next level" when T.O. was added to the roster. The 2009 season has absolutely no bearing on what happened between 2005-2007 and your bringing it up is only sour grapes for being outdone in this discussion.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

So now you are agreeing that we did improve with Owens? I love how you just alter your arguments every time I show you how wrong you are. I am not arguing the contributing factors to our improvements in 2006 and 2007, just the fact that T.O. was one of those factors and that we did go to "the next level" when T.O. was added to the roster. The 2009 season has absolutely no bearing on what happened between 2005-2007 and your bringing it up is only sour grapes for being outdone in this discussion.

The argument was that TO took us to the next level.. and he did not. We didn't win one postseason game with him, and the year after we got rid of all the character problems, we won our division title and won our first playoff game in 15 years. So was TO vital to bringing this team to the next level?

No.

 

[Sheik]

The argument was that TO took us to the next level.. and he did not. We didn't win one postseason game with him, and the year after we got rid of all the character problems, we won our division title and won our first playoff game in 15 years. So was TO vital to bringing this team to the next level?

No.

It goes back to what you consider "the next level".

BP wasn't around for the playoff win that we ended up getting, but I credit him with putting that team in place. He didn't stick around long enough to see it through, but he built that playoff team. You could argue that he wouldn't have got that win with his style of coaching, okay, we'll never know that, but he built the team that Wade won with.

Same with TO, I credit him with some of Romo's development early on. He was vital to Romo's success. The man pulled in what, 38 TDs over 3 years? I think everyone knows that year 3 Owens started his usual routine of stirring shit. He had run his course in Dallas.

You think Romo would be where he is today if Owens wasn't around to be that #1 threat? You think Romo would be better off with Keyshawn Johnson/Patrick Crayton/fill in the blank for those 3 years? I doubt it. That's what I consider helping the franchise to the next level. Helping a potential franchise QB along early in the process.

 

[sbk92]

That's nonsense that Parcells wouldn't have won. He should have won a playoff game the year before but his deer in the headlights green starting QB couldn't field a routine FG snap.

There is no situation in football where Wade Phillips can get a win that Parcells can't. Idiotic, bullshat, fanatic garbage. If anybody tells you that, you know that fan is a moron never worth listening to.

 

[Sheik]

Yes, we should have won that Seattle game, no doubt. I have no doubt in my mind that BP has more success than Wade, had he wanted to stick around. I don't doubt that. What I was doing was drawing a comparrison to the two situations without tailing completely away from the topic.

 

[sbk92]

I wasn't talking about you, Sheik. I was talking about the many times I've read that nonsense while Wade was here.

Give me an effin break with that. Timing is everything. Fat Wade was lucky to take over that team when he did.

 

[Sheik]

I wasn't talking about you, Sheik. I was talking about the many times I've read that nonsense while Wade was here.

Give me an effin break with that. Timing is everything. Fat Wade was lucky to take over that team when he did.

I didn't think you were. I was just clearing up what I said so nobody else assumed that was my stance on BP.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

It goes back to what you consider "the next level".

BP wasn't around for the playoff win that we ended up getting, but I credit him with putting that team in place. He didn't stick around long enough to see it through, but he built that playoff team. You could argue that he wouldn't have got that win with his style of coaching, okay, we'll never know that, but he built the team that Wade won with.

Same with TO, I credit him with some of Romo's development early on. He was vital to Romo's success. The man pulled in what, 38 TDs over 3 years? I think everyone knows that year 3 Owens started his usual routine of stirring shit. He had run his course in Dallas.

You think Romo would be where he is today if Owens wasn't around to be that #1 threat? You think Romo would be better off with Keyshawn Johnson/Patrick Crayton/fill in the blank for those 3 years? I doubt it. That's what I consider helping the franchise to the next level. Helping a potential franchise QB along early in the process.

Do i think Romo would be the Qb that he is today without TO? F u c k yes! To suggest he wouldn't be as good is asinine.

 

[Sheik]

Do i think Romo would be the Qb that he is today without TO? F u c k yes! To suggest he wouldn't be as good is asinine.

I'm not saying he wouldn't be a good QB if not for TO, what I am saying is TO helped him greatly along in the early process by being a true #1 WR.

I said do you think Romo would be where he is today with Keyshawn Johnson/Patrick Crayton/Sam Hurd or whoever at #3?

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I'm not saying he wouldn't be a good QB if not for TO, what I am saying is TO helped him greatly along in the early process by being a true #1 WR.

I said do you think Romo would be where he is today with Keyshawn Johnson/Patrick Crayton/Sam Hurd or whoever at #3?

"Be where he is today" meaning what then? I take that to mean would he be at the level he is at now, and the answer is hell friggin yes. You don't know that it would have been three years with more Keyshawn either, in all probability it wouldn't have been and we would have signed another WR to come in and take his spot. Tony is what he is today because he's worked hard to become one of the best QB's in the game.. not because of TO. Be realistic now..

 

[Sheik]

"Be where he is today" meaning what then? I take that to mean would he be at the level he is at now, and the answer is hell friggin yes. You don't know that it would have been three years with more Keyshawn either, in all probability it wouldn't have been and we would have signed another WR to come in and take his spot. Tony is what he is today because he's worked hard to become one of the best QB's in the game.. not because of TO. Be realistic now..

Then we disagree, I was trying to figure out your thoughts on it.

Romo stepped into an offense that had one of the leagues most dangerous Wrs. I'm not disputing the fact that Tony is a very good QB. He is. I'm saying he had a pretty good leg up to start out.

TO was one of the better WRs in the league in his first 2 years in Dallas. I'm suggesting that Romo was very lucky to have had such a talent to work with early in his maturation process.

I'm saying if TO hadn't been there, Romo more than likely doesn't have as much early success as he enjoyed. Having a #1 WR is huge. It was the first time since Michael Irvin that this team had a true #1. That's not a knock on Terry Glenn who wad awesome or Ismail who gave us a few good years, but neither was on TO's level.

You obviously disagree, but I think Romo greatly benefited from TO. I also believe, as far as next level and what that means to me, that TO helped our team get to that next level.

Great players are great players, but football is about so much more than talent, IMO. A lot of it is being at the right place at the right time. At the time, there weren't more than 4 or 5 WRs that could do what TO was doing. Replace some of those TDs with incompletions or ints. How does that effect a young QB? Especially a guy that's a longshot at best going in.

I don't think you can discount a talent like TO and say that Romo would easily be the QB he is today without him. Who knows, he could have flamed out and been benches in the process. We'll never know.

I understand that Romo is extremely talented, but a lot of luck is involved and it plays a big part in a players success, IMO. I think Romo was undoubtably lucky to have TO when he did.

 

[Sheik]

I mean, holy shit, TO helped this team develop a Franchise QB. We hadn't had one since Aikman retired in 2001? Aikman hadn't been that good at the end of his career either. I'd say it had been nearly 10 years without having a legit top 10 QB in the league.

That's next level to me. If you have a franchise QB, you have a chance in this league.

 

[Cythim]

I mean, holy shit, TO helped this team develop a Franchise QB. We hadn't had one since Aikman retired in 2001? Aikman hadn't been that good at the end of his career either. I'd say it had been nearly 10 years without having a legit top 10 QB in the league.

That's next level to me. If you have a franchise QB, you have a chance in this league.

You also have to consider where this team would have been without Owens. Were are probably looking at being below .500 in 2006 and a wildcard team at best in 2007.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

You also have to consider where this team would have been without Owens. Were are probably looking at being below .500 in 2006 and a wildcard team at best in 2007.

Wow.. you're out of your f u c king mind, sir.

Again, really? TO helped devlop us a franchise QB? Uh no..

TO was outdone in catches 2 out of his 3 seasons here by a teammate.. please don't act like we had no one else to throw to and TO caught everything. Also, if we wouldn't have signed TO we most likely would have signed another big time WR, so comparing TO to Keyshawn is faulty logic at best. TO is a great talent, and certainly did his part on the field while he was here, but he wasn't the reason Tony developed, and he didn't bring us a franchise QB.. we already had one.

 

[Cythim]

Wow.. you're out of your f u c king mind, sir.

Again, really? TO helped devlop us a franchise QB? Uh no..

TO was outdone in catches 2 out of his 3 seasons here by a teammate.. please don't act like we had no one else to throw to and TO caught everything. Also, if we wouldn't have signed TO we most likely would have signed another big time WR, so comparing TO to Keyshawn is faulty logic at best. TO is a great talent, and certainly did his part on the field while he was here, but he wasn't the reason Tony developed, and he didn't bring us a franchise QB.. we already had one.

Who else was on the market to sign in 2006? Maybe we could have brought back Antonio Bryant? Or maybe you wanted Randle El, McCardell or Jurevicius? Yep, with all of those big names in FA we could have easily signed another big time WR. Those types of players are just falling out of the sky. Our options in 2006 were TO or Keyshawn and Jerry made the right call in spite of BP's crying.

It is sad that you are more worried about being right than you are with accepting the truth. This type of zealous denial that anyone other than you could be right is what leads to war, death, and the ultimate distruction of humanity. Accept that you are not perfect and these discussions will be much easier for you.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Who else was on the market to sign in 2006? Maybe we could have brought back Antonio Bryant? Or maybe you wanted Randle El, McCardell or Jurevicius? Yep, with all of those big names in FA we could have easily signed another big time WR. Those types of players are just falling out of the sky. Our options in 2006 were TO or Keyshawn and Jerry made the right call in spite of BP's crying.

It is sad that you are more worried about being right than you are with accepting the truth. This type of zealous denial that anyone other than you could be right is what leads to war, death, and the ultimate distruction of humanity. Accept that you are not perfect and these discussions will be much easier for you.

Now we're talking about the destruction of humanity? Get a grip fool..

I already admitted that TO did well for us on the field, he did his part.. but again, saying that he was the entire reason that Tony developed into the QB he is today is utter nonsense and you should be banned for saying something so stupid. Again, 2 out of the 3 seasons TO was here, he didn't even catch the most passes, so you think Tony didn't have anyone else to throw to or wouldn't have been able to find other guys to throw to and make plays? Bullshit.. hop off of TO's dick for a minute and tell me how many super bowls has he been to? How many has he won?

On the other hand.. how many teams has he played for that he didn't create a locker room problem? He's a cancer man.. i didn't want to believe it, but after what i saw in Dallas, i've had enough of players like that. So did Jerry, and its no coincidence the year after we got rid of TO, and Pac Man, and Tank.. we won our division, won our first playoff game in 15 years, and did it all without TO. Amazing huh?

 

[Cythim]

Now we're talking about the destruction of humanity? Get a grip fool..

I already admitted that TO did well for us on the field, he did his part.. but again, saying that he was the entire reason that Tony developed into the QB he is today is utter nonsense and you should be banned for saying something so stupid. Again, 2 out of the 3 seasons TO was here, he didn't even catch the most passes, so you think Tony didn't have anyone else to throw to or wouldn't have been able to find other guys to throw to and make plays? Bullshit.. hop off of TO's dick for a minute and tell me how many super bowls has he been to? How many has he won?

On the other hand.. how many teams has he played for that he didn't create a locker room problem? He's a cancer man.. i didn't want to believe it, but after what i saw in Dallas, i've had enough of players like that. So did Jerry, and its no coincidence the year after we got rid of TO, and Pac Man, and Tank.. we won our division, won our first playoff game in 15 years, and did it all without TO. Amazing huh?

No one said he was the entire reason Tony developed into the QB he is today. I already told you that I am not arguing how much impact anyone had, just the fact that TO did have a positive impact. Name calling and gay slurs are not going to change that fact. TO has been to more Super Bowls than everyone on this roster combined. I am not defending him and saying he hasn't created problems, but the problems he might have had in Dallas were over-blown. You act like getting rid of TO was the sole reason for winning a playoff game, but what happened last year without him? Our worst season since before he was on the team. Amazing, huh?

 

[Midswat]

Even if we kick that field goal, we would've lost that Seattle game.

Our defense had a history of collapsing late in games. And Seattle had one of the best field goal kickers in the league.

Hell, we could've gotten the ball back had we stopped them on third down, but again, our defense collapses and Shaun Alexander rushed for a first down.

If Parcells had a sack, he would've gone for it on 4th and centimeters.

 

[Cythim]

If Parcells had a sack he would have opened the offense and allowed Romo to sling the ball around.