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Cowboys Nation Draft Chat Part 1: The D-Linemen Keep Rising
Posted by Rafael at Wednesday, March 16, 2011
In part one of Cowboys Nation's weekly chat with the National Football Post's Wes Bunting, we examine the continuing rise of the highly-rated defensive lineman crop, the solidifying top tier of offensive linemen and the problems this creates for Dallas' second pick, the 40th overall.
CN: Your third mock came out this morning and our buddy Tyron Smith is back to Dallas in the nine slot. Your site also has put out a series of pieces documenting where individual players will visit. One today has Smith going to Dallas and to Minnesota, who picks 12th overall. Given that you gave Smith to Washington at 10 in your first mock, is this Tyron Smith's range now, in the 9-12 zone? Does he have any competition to be the top OT?
Wes Bunting: I think Smith goes anywhere between 9 to 13. I think the Cowboys, Redskins, Vikings and Lions will give him hard looks at 9, 10, 12 and 13 and I don't see him lasting past that range. I believe he'll be the first tackle taken. I think he's the best offensive tackle in the draft.
CN: To follow up, you mentioned earlier this week that you've heard Anthony Castonzo's and Nate Solder's names connected to Detroit. Can you elaborate on that?
WB: The Lions need a defensive back in the worst way. But if Amukarma and Patrick Peterson are gone, they could look at Brandon Harris, who's a little undersized, but that's a little early for him. You know, Devin McCourty was a little undersized and he fell into the late 1st round. Jimmy Smith has the character concerns so they may not be able to go defensive back there.
They could go defensive line but they've got a solid one right now. So you look at left tackle and they have Jeff Backus who's been slightly under-average the last couple of years. Plus, they have Matthew Stafford and he's been hurt an awful lot his first two seasons, so it may be time to invest in some linemen to protect him. Jim Schwartz likes smart, athletic guys and the two names I've heard there are Solder and Castonzo.
CN: You raise an interesting question and you've anticipated one of the fans' questions. One wants to know more about Brandon Harris and why he might be slipping? He wants to know why he might be getting the McCourty treatment, as you put it.
WB: He's not the biggest guy. They have him listed at 5'11'' and he's about 5'9'' and a half. And he didn't have a great 40 time at the Combine. It was 4.44 and then it became 4.50 officially. He had a great workout though. He was fluid, he changed directions well, and on tape, I really liked the guy. On draft day, I think he could fall because he's not the biggest and not the fastest, but he plays fast and I think he plays faster than Amukamara. I have him rated higher than Amukamara.
CN: Have you heard anything more about Amukamara's possible slide? He now looks like a guy who could go what, in the 11 to 17 range or so?
WB: Yeah, I don't think he sneaks into the top 10, unless a team like Dallas picks him, and I don't think they would. And there are not that many teams out there that need a corner, and there will be better prospects out there. I think the Houston Texans might have a tough time passing on him if he's there. They have a need in their secondary and they can pair him with Kareem Jackson, and have two your physical corners who could play in off-man. I think it makes some sense.
CN: I want to stay in the first round and talk about your fresh mock. Last week we talked about the value of defensive linemen in this draft. You already had a dozen in your mock and today you have eleven down-defensive linemen, not counting 3-4 outside linebackers. You have Marvin Austin moving up this time.
This presents something of a nightmare scenario for the Cowboys. I think a lot of fans would be happy with Tyron Smith at 9, I know I would be, but now the attention swings to the 2nd round pick at 40 and who's left? You have the top OTs and the top interior prospect, Danny Watkins, going in the first. And you have so many d-linemen getting picked, I'm seeing a problem I posed last week, what type of d-lineman do you pick at the top of the 3rd round, now being an issue at the top of the 2nd round.
Let's say the Cowboys d-line pet cats are gone. J.J. Watt, Cameron Jordan and Phil Taylor are long gone. What then? I'm going to pair this with a story that come out on NFP yesterday, that good 3-4 teams at the bottom of the 2nd, the Steelers, the Packers, the Patriots and even the Eagles, are looking at Kendrick Ellis. Is he now rising in the 2nd the way Phil Taylor is in the 1st? Is he a guy who now projects in the 50-64 range?
WB: I think so. I think if you're a 3-4 team and you're looking for a defensive lineman in the 2nd, you have Cameron Heyward and Christian Ballard. Heyward is the safer pick and I think Ballard has more upside, but then you have Ellis, who is a really intriguing guy. A lot of mocks I see now have him in that 2nd round range and I think he could keep moving up and up.
The Giants took a defensive lineman from East Carolina last year, Linval Joseph, who had that same kind of rise. He's big, he's physical, he's explosive, he's got that good tape, but he was an underclassman, so it took some time for his tires to gain some traction, and I just think the closer we get to the draft the higher Kendrick Ellis will keep rising. I think he's a 2nd round lock now, to be honest.
CN: I'm prepping my own mock for Friday and I'm using yours as my contingency, and with the top layer of DEs gone and the Danny Watkins gone, I'm thinking more and more about including Ellis in the 2nd round mix.
WB: You remember when we started, we had Phil Taylor in the 2nd and he keeps moving up. Somebody has to take Taylor's spot and I think it could be Kendrick Ellis.
CN: Let's go to reader questions. I have one about Notre Dame's d-lineman Ian Williams. Where would he play in a 3-4 front?
WB: He would be a nose in a 3-4. He's a little plugger. I think his best bet is as a nose in a 4-3. He was really short when I saw him up close for the first time. He's a wide body, got a decent initial get off. I think he's a reserve only in the NFL, but in this nose-guard-starved class, he's one guy in that late round range who could get some looks. Anthony Gray, the Southern Mississippi guy is also in that class, guys who could get drafted to give their team some nose tackle depth.
CN: I got a question about /WR Titus Young possibly slipping over character concerns and some so-so interviews. Could you say more about that?
WB: Well, he's a bit of a character concern. He missed time at Boise State for breaking team rules. I still don't know what that means, but there are some character questions with him. He's a brash guy and he is who he is. I can see him turning off some teams during the interview process. DeSean Jackson turned off some teams during the interview process, which is why he fell to the 2nd round. It doesn't mean he's a bad player. I could see Titus Young dropping a bit in the 2nd round, and maybe even into the top of the 3rd round. I wouldn't bet on it ,but nothing surprises me.
CN: A question about Texas' corner Curtis Brown. Where does he rate in that 2nd level of corners and where does he project in the middle of March?
WB: I think he's a man corner. He's not overly physical off the line, but he can turn and run, he can track the football, he's fluid, he's fast out of his breaks. I like him more than Aaron Williams and Chykie Brown. He's not as physical as those two, I'd like to see him put on some weight, but when I watch them from the waist down, he's a much more fluid and coordinated cornerback and that's why I like him a bit more.
It wouldn't surprise me if he went in that 2nd round range. I'd say 3rd corner right now. After the top four guys it's anybody's guess as to the next tier. I'd say Brown, Aaron Williams, Curtis Marsh, Johnny Patrick, all those guys would be in discussion to be that next guy or next guys off the board.
CN: A repeat question, but I think it's good to re-visit it. You're asked to compare Tyron Smith to the top tackles from last year's class.
WB: I'd probably have him number two. I'd have Russell Okung over him, because he's a senior, he's a little more polished and more NFL-ready. I think Tyron Smith has some more upside but my top tackles last year were Okung, Roger Saffold and Smith's USC bookend Charles Brown.
"I think Smith is better than those two. Maybe a more athletic version of Roger Saffold, with more upside, is how I'd say he plays."
Posted by Rafael at Wednesday, March 16, 2011
In part one of Cowboys Nation's weekly chat with the National Football Post's Wes Bunting, we examine the continuing rise of the highly-rated defensive lineman crop, the solidifying top tier of offensive linemen and the problems this creates for Dallas' second pick, the 40th overall.
CN: Your third mock came out this morning and our buddy Tyron Smith is back to Dallas in the nine slot. Your site also has put out a series of pieces documenting where individual players will visit. One today has Smith going to Dallas and to Minnesota, who picks 12th overall. Given that you gave Smith to Washington at 10 in your first mock, is this Tyron Smith's range now, in the 9-12 zone? Does he have any competition to be the top OT?
Wes Bunting: I think Smith goes anywhere between 9 to 13. I think the Cowboys, Redskins, Vikings and Lions will give him hard looks at 9, 10, 12 and 13 and I don't see him lasting past that range. I believe he'll be the first tackle taken. I think he's the best offensive tackle in the draft.
CN: To follow up, you mentioned earlier this week that you've heard Anthony Castonzo's and Nate Solder's names connected to Detroit. Can you elaborate on that?
WB: The Lions need a defensive back in the worst way. But if Amukarma and Patrick Peterson are gone, they could look at Brandon Harris, who's a little undersized, but that's a little early for him. You know, Devin McCourty was a little undersized and he fell into the late 1st round. Jimmy Smith has the character concerns so they may not be able to go defensive back there.
They could go defensive line but they've got a solid one right now. So you look at left tackle and they have Jeff Backus who's been slightly under-average the last couple of years. Plus, they have Matthew Stafford and he's been hurt an awful lot his first two seasons, so it may be time to invest in some linemen to protect him. Jim Schwartz likes smart, athletic guys and the two names I've heard there are Solder and Castonzo.
CN: You raise an interesting question and you've anticipated one of the fans' questions. One wants to know more about Brandon Harris and why he might be slipping? He wants to know why he might be getting the McCourty treatment, as you put it.
WB: He's not the biggest guy. They have him listed at 5'11'' and he's about 5'9'' and a half. And he didn't have a great 40 time at the Combine. It was 4.44 and then it became 4.50 officially. He had a great workout though. He was fluid, he changed directions well, and on tape, I really liked the guy. On draft day, I think he could fall because he's not the biggest and not the fastest, but he plays fast and I think he plays faster than Amukamara. I have him rated higher than Amukamara.
CN: Have you heard anything more about Amukamara's possible slide? He now looks like a guy who could go what, in the 11 to 17 range or so?
WB: Yeah, I don't think he sneaks into the top 10, unless a team like Dallas picks him, and I don't think they would. And there are not that many teams out there that need a corner, and there will be better prospects out there. I think the Houston Texans might have a tough time passing on him if he's there. They have a need in their secondary and they can pair him with Kareem Jackson, and have two your physical corners who could play in off-man. I think it makes some sense.
CN: I want to stay in the first round and talk about your fresh mock. Last week we talked about the value of defensive linemen in this draft. You already had a dozen in your mock and today you have eleven down-defensive linemen, not counting 3-4 outside linebackers. You have Marvin Austin moving up this time.
This presents something of a nightmare scenario for the Cowboys. I think a lot of fans would be happy with Tyron Smith at 9, I know I would be, but now the attention swings to the 2nd round pick at 40 and who's left? You have the top OTs and the top interior prospect, Danny Watkins, going in the first. And you have so many d-linemen getting picked, I'm seeing a problem I posed last week, what type of d-lineman do you pick at the top of the 3rd round, now being an issue at the top of the 2nd round.
Let's say the Cowboys d-line pet cats are gone. J.J. Watt, Cameron Jordan and Phil Taylor are long gone. What then? I'm going to pair this with a story that come out on NFP yesterday, that good 3-4 teams at the bottom of the 2nd, the Steelers, the Packers, the Patriots and even the Eagles, are looking at Kendrick Ellis. Is he now rising in the 2nd the way Phil Taylor is in the 1st? Is he a guy who now projects in the 50-64 range?
WB: I think so. I think if you're a 3-4 team and you're looking for a defensive lineman in the 2nd, you have Cameron Heyward and Christian Ballard. Heyward is the safer pick and I think Ballard has more upside, but then you have Ellis, who is a really intriguing guy. A lot of mocks I see now have him in that 2nd round range and I think he could keep moving up and up.
The Giants took a defensive lineman from East Carolina last year, Linval Joseph, who had that same kind of rise. He's big, he's physical, he's explosive, he's got that good tape, but he was an underclassman, so it took some time for his tires to gain some traction, and I just think the closer we get to the draft the higher Kendrick Ellis will keep rising. I think he's a 2nd round lock now, to be honest.
CN: I'm prepping my own mock for Friday and I'm using yours as my contingency, and with the top layer of DEs gone and the Danny Watkins gone, I'm thinking more and more about including Ellis in the 2nd round mix.
WB: You remember when we started, we had Phil Taylor in the 2nd and he keeps moving up. Somebody has to take Taylor's spot and I think it could be Kendrick Ellis.
CN: Let's go to reader questions. I have one about Notre Dame's d-lineman Ian Williams. Where would he play in a 3-4 front?
WB: He would be a nose in a 3-4. He's a little plugger. I think his best bet is as a nose in a 4-3. He was really short when I saw him up close for the first time. He's a wide body, got a decent initial get off. I think he's a reserve only in the NFL, but in this nose-guard-starved class, he's one guy in that late round range who could get some looks. Anthony Gray, the Southern Mississippi guy is also in that class, guys who could get drafted to give their team some nose tackle depth.
CN: I got a question about /WR Titus Young possibly slipping over character concerns and some so-so interviews. Could you say more about that?
WB: Well, he's a bit of a character concern. He missed time at Boise State for breaking team rules. I still don't know what that means, but there are some character questions with him. He's a brash guy and he is who he is. I can see him turning off some teams during the interview process. DeSean Jackson turned off some teams during the interview process, which is why he fell to the 2nd round. It doesn't mean he's a bad player. I could see Titus Young dropping a bit in the 2nd round, and maybe even into the top of the 3rd round. I wouldn't bet on it ,but nothing surprises me.
CN: A question about Texas' corner Curtis Brown. Where does he rate in that 2nd level of corners and where does he project in the middle of March?
WB: I think he's a man corner. He's not overly physical off the line, but he can turn and run, he can track the football, he's fluid, he's fast out of his breaks. I like him more than Aaron Williams and Chykie Brown. He's not as physical as those two, I'd like to see him put on some weight, but when I watch them from the waist down, he's a much more fluid and coordinated cornerback and that's why I like him a bit more.
It wouldn't surprise me if he went in that 2nd round range. I'd say 3rd corner right now. After the top four guys it's anybody's guess as to the next tier. I'd say Brown, Aaron Williams, Curtis Marsh, Johnny Patrick, all those guys would be in discussion to be that next guy or next guys off the board.
CN: A repeat question, but I think it's good to re-visit it. You're asked to compare Tyron Smith to the top tackles from last year's class.
WB: I'd probably have him number two. I'd have Russell Okung over him, because he's a senior, he's a little more polished and more NFL-ready. I think Tyron Smith has some more upside but my top tackles last year were Okung, Roger Saffold and Smith's USC bookend Charles Brown.
"I think Smith is better than those two. Maybe a more athletic version of Roger Saffold, with more upside, is how I'd say he plays."