Posted by Rafael at Tuesday, March 20, 2012
In part one of this week's chat with the National Football Post's Wes Bunting, I ask him to fine tune the horizontal and the vertical controls, two of the biggest skills in NFL war rooms.
As Michael Lombardi pointed out a few years ago, teams are generally very good at ranking players within a position, say, who are the top 5 guards, or top 5 running backs? Those are the vertical lists.
But what if you have players at five different positions with identical grades? How do you rank those players who sit on the same horizontal plane? It's like going to the NFL optometrist. Do this player look better to you, Mr. Jones? Or this one?
Now, the linebacker? Or this defensive end?
Now, the defensive end? Or the guard?
* * * *
Cowboys Nation: Free agency started this week, and from the Cowboys perspective, one question is how the quarterback merry-go-round might change the options for Dallas? Let's start with Ryan Tannehill. There was some speculation that he would go to Miami, to play for his college coach Mike Sherman, who is now the OC there. That might still happen, but could Cleveland take him? They have the 4th pick and they have the 22nd pick. If Miami feels the 9th pick is too high for Tannehill, the Browns could see him fall to them at 22.
Wes Bunting: They're [Cleveland] in a good spot. They're talked about in connection with Trent Richardson a lot. Do they want to go the possible franchise QB route? Do they want to just take the best player?
One argument I've heard is, do you want to take a Richardon, and settle for a Brandon Weeden, or a Nick Foles or a Cousins if you wait until after the 1st? Or do you take a Ryan Tannehill and then a back like say, Lamar Miller in round 2? The discrepancy between the running back position is less than it is at quarterback. It's almost as if you have to take the two positions in tandem, to judge where the better value comes.
CN: Here's another free agent move that could affect the Cowboys. The Chiefs signed Eric Winston to play right tackle. Does this increase the chances the Chiefs, or the Seahawks, who filled their quarterback need, go for a David DeCastro now?
WB: The one name I'm hearing a lot of buzz for is Amini Silatolu, the Midwestern State guard. There are lot of teams picking at the back of the 1st who don't really want to pick there, but if they have to stay they want a safe guy who can play at a high level early on, Silatolu is a name I keep hearing. He could sneak into the end of the 1st.
Depending on how early these offensive linemen start to go, he could make the 1st round. Some good sources I've talked to said he's got similar qualities to a Mike Iupati. How, he's not going to go in the top 20, but if you're looking for a safe, nasty guy? He could be that guy.
And Brandon Brooks is such a hot name too. Everybody is on the Brandon Brooks train now.
CN: The Cowboys just signed two free agent guards this week, but their biggest hole on their line last year was center. We haven't discussed Peter Konz in a while. Have you heard any buzz at all on him?
WB: I have not heard anything on him, and that makes me wonder, because there are too many teams at the back of the round who need center help, and he's too good of a player. Teams like the Ravens, the Patriots, the Cowboys, the Steelers, teams that like to take big interior linemen. He's a guy who play guard or center and he could play from day one.
I'm convinced he goes in the 1st round. Earliest, I'd say, Cowboys at 14, the latest... the Patriots at 31.
CN: We played a game last week where I asked if he was a player who could slip into the 2nd. You said no, and mentioned the Ravens and Pats as two candidates. I looked at the top of the 2nd round, and there are the Colts at pick 34. They're taking Andrew Luck. They just lost Jeff Saturday, their starting center. They drafted two tackles 1-2 last year, in Anthony Castonzo and Ben Ijalana.
If they can get a Peter Konz, they''ve started to build a good young line for Luck. At the absolute worst, Konz goes to the Colts there. I can't him dropping any farther, assuming he gets there in the first place.
Now, I want to play the optometrist game this week, where I present two players with similar grades on your board, and you tell me whether you think this player is a better choice or the other one.
A lot depends on the team, but obviously, we're looking at it through Cowboys eyes.
You have twelve guys with 7.0 grades, and they start at pick 14, where Dallas picks.
Let's start with these two 7.0 guys -- Peter Konz, or Courtney Upshaw?
WB: I like Konz a little more, just because I feel there's a greater safeness to him. He's a guy who can anchor the interior of my offensive line. With Upshaw, I know what I'm getting. There's a safeness there too, but if I'm going pass rusher early, I want someone dynamic, and I don't see a dynamic guy in Upshaw. He's a good player, but not a special player.
With Konz, I see some qualities that could make him a plus player, who could anchor my offensive line for a long time. I would go Konz there.
CN: Konz or Mark Barron?
WB: I would say Konz again. I like Barron. I gave him a 7.0. But I offer the same reasons. It's not easy to find a good center. With Barron there's some questions. He may not run this whole off-season, so you're basing him just off game grades. I would take Konz over him.
CN: Let me ask you about Konz. He had an injury that kept him out of Wisconsin's bowl game and he didn't work out at the Badgers' Pro Day. Have you heard anything about that?
WB: No. I have not heard anything.
CN: Dre Kirkpatrick or Cordy Glenn?
WB: I'm going to put you guys to sleep, but I'd say Cordy Glenn. I think there's a comfort level with him. You can play him at guard or you can play him at right tackle, and I think you can get a Pro Bowl caliber player out of him, especially inside.
Dre, I think he's going to be a good corner in the NFL. I don't think he's going to be elite. That's the biggest thing. What makes it tough is I think this is a good guard class. But if I could go Cordy Glenn in round one, and go to two and get an Alfonzo Dennard or a Trumaine Johnson. Then I look at if the other way. If I go Dre in the 1st, as much as I like Brandon Brooks, I don't think he'll ever be as good as Cordy Glenn.
CN: Let's put the two ''winners'' together then -- Glenn or Konz?
WB: I'd go Cordy Glenn, 'cause he's a bit more athletic. He gives you a little more versatility. Konz can play center-guard. Glenn can play guard-tackle. I think that gives him the advantage in value. I think he's a plus athletically. And if can figure it out, and it seemed like he was when he played guard at the Senior Bowl, he can be as good as anyone at his position. I think he can be really good.
CN: Do you see Glenn as a right guard only? Can he be the puller, or is he more of an angle guy?
WB: I think he could do either. It's rare to say that about a 350 pounder. He played left tackle. He could play right. I think it's wherever he's comfortable. In that angle scheme where he could play with power and then run lead power or lead open, I think he would be fine.
In part one of this week's chat with the National Football Post's Wes Bunting, I ask him to fine tune the horizontal and the vertical controls, two of the biggest skills in NFL war rooms.
As Michael Lombardi pointed out a few years ago, teams are generally very good at ranking players within a position, say, who are the top 5 guards, or top 5 running backs? Those are the vertical lists.
But what if you have players at five different positions with identical grades? How do you rank those players who sit on the same horizontal plane? It's like going to the NFL optometrist. Do this player look better to you, Mr. Jones? Or this one?
Now, the linebacker? Or this defensive end?
Now, the defensive end? Or the guard?
* * * *
Cowboys Nation: Free agency started this week, and from the Cowboys perspective, one question is how the quarterback merry-go-round might change the options for Dallas? Let's start with Ryan Tannehill. There was some speculation that he would go to Miami, to play for his college coach Mike Sherman, who is now the OC there. That might still happen, but could Cleveland take him? They have the 4th pick and they have the 22nd pick. If Miami feels the 9th pick is too high for Tannehill, the Browns could see him fall to them at 22.
Wes Bunting: They're [Cleveland] in a good spot. They're talked about in connection with Trent Richardson a lot. Do they want to go the possible franchise QB route? Do they want to just take the best player?
One argument I've heard is, do you want to take a Richardon, and settle for a Brandon Weeden, or a Nick Foles or a Cousins if you wait until after the 1st? Or do you take a Ryan Tannehill and then a back like say, Lamar Miller in round 2? The discrepancy between the running back position is less than it is at quarterback. It's almost as if you have to take the two positions in tandem, to judge where the better value comes.
CN: Here's another free agent move that could affect the Cowboys. The Chiefs signed Eric Winston to play right tackle. Does this increase the chances the Chiefs, or the Seahawks, who filled their quarterback need, go for a David DeCastro now?
WB: The one name I'm hearing a lot of buzz for is Amini Silatolu, the Midwestern State guard. There are lot of teams picking at the back of the 1st who don't really want to pick there, but if they have to stay they want a safe guy who can play at a high level early on, Silatolu is a name I keep hearing. He could sneak into the end of the 1st.
Depending on how early these offensive linemen start to go, he could make the 1st round. Some good sources I've talked to said he's got similar qualities to a Mike Iupati. How, he's not going to go in the top 20, but if you're looking for a safe, nasty guy? He could be that guy.
And Brandon Brooks is such a hot name too. Everybody is on the Brandon Brooks train now.
CN: The Cowboys just signed two free agent guards this week, but their biggest hole on their line last year was center. We haven't discussed Peter Konz in a while. Have you heard any buzz at all on him?
WB: I have not heard anything on him, and that makes me wonder, because there are too many teams at the back of the round who need center help, and he's too good of a player. Teams like the Ravens, the Patriots, the Cowboys, the Steelers, teams that like to take big interior linemen. He's a guy who play guard or center and he could play from day one.
I'm convinced he goes in the 1st round. Earliest, I'd say, Cowboys at 14, the latest... the Patriots at 31.
CN: We played a game last week where I asked if he was a player who could slip into the 2nd. You said no, and mentioned the Ravens and Pats as two candidates. I looked at the top of the 2nd round, and there are the Colts at pick 34. They're taking Andrew Luck. They just lost Jeff Saturday, their starting center. They drafted two tackles 1-2 last year, in Anthony Castonzo and Ben Ijalana.
If they can get a Peter Konz, they''ve started to build a good young line for Luck. At the absolute worst, Konz goes to the Colts there. I can't him dropping any farther, assuming he gets there in the first place.
Now, I want to play the optometrist game this week, where I present two players with similar grades on your board, and you tell me whether you think this player is a better choice or the other one.
A lot depends on the team, but obviously, we're looking at it through Cowboys eyes.
You have twelve guys with 7.0 grades, and they start at pick 14, where Dallas picks.
Let's start with these two 7.0 guys -- Peter Konz, or Courtney Upshaw?
WB: I like Konz a little more, just because I feel there's a greater safeness to him. He's a guy who can anchor the interior of my offensive line. With Upshaw, I know what I'm getting. There's a safeness there too, but if I'm going pass rusher early, I want someone dynamic, and I don't see a dynamic guy in Upshaw. He's a good player, but not a special player.
With Konz, I see some qualities that could make him a plus player, who could anchor my offensive line for a long time. I would go Konz there.
CN: Konz or Mark Barron?
WB: I would say Konz again. I like Barron. I gave him a 7.0. But I offer the same reasons. It's not easy to find a good center. With Barron there's some questions. He may not run this whole off-season, so you're basing him just off game grades. I would take Konz over him.
CN: Let me ask you about Konz. He had an injury that kept him out of Wisconsin's bowl game and he didn't work out at the Badgers' Pro Day. Have you heard anything about that?
WB: No. I have not heard anything.
CN: Dre Kirkpatrick or Cordy Glenn?
WB: I'm going to put you guys to sleep, but I'd say Cordy Glenn. I think there's a comfort level with him. You can play him at guard or you can play him at right tackle, and I think you can get a Pro Bowl caliber player out of him, especially inside.
Dre, I think he's going to be a good corner in the NFL. I don't think he's going to be elite. That's the biggest thing. What makes it tough is I think this is a good guard class. But if I could go Cordy Glenn in round one, and go to two and get an Alfonzo Dennard or a Trumaine Johnson. Then I look at if the other way. If I go Dre in the 1st, as much as I like Brandon Brooks, I don't think he'll ever be as good as Cordy Glenn.
CN: Let's put the two ''winners'' together then -- Glenn or Konz?
WB: I'd go Cordy Glenn, 'cause he's a bit more athletic. He gives you a little more versatility. Konz can play center-guard. Glenn can play guard-tackle. I think that gives him the advantage in value. I think he's a plus athletically. And if can figure it out, and it seemed like he was when he played guard at the Senior Bowl, he can be as good as anyone at his position. I think he can be really good.
CN: Do you see Glenn as a right guard only? Can he be the puller, or is he more of an angle guy?
WB: I think he could do either. It's rare to say that about a 350 pounder. He played left tackle. He could play right. I think it's wherever he's comfortable. In that angle scheme where he could play with power and then run lead power or lead open, I think he would be fine.
