The never-ending POTUS Election thread....

[Creeper]

The ERA does not exist as part of the Constitution, it is only still, a proposed amendment. It has not been ratified.
What did I fucking say.
"In fact there's only one amendment in it that restricts private action." And that's the 14th.
Still true.

Your rights to free speech ARE NOT VIOLATED by your boss if he fires you as a consequence of your speech.

You're pettifogging. None of this is in the Constitution, these are federal laws that were challenged in the courts and were upheld. So, I will address your original point one more time:

Your rights to free speech ARE NOT VIOLATED by your boss if he fires you as a consequence of your speech.

That's very specific. It's not about religion or anything else. Glenn Carano's little daughter has NO case. Her free speech rights were NOT violated by Disney. Period.


And that's good, and it is perfectly Constitutional.

The Constitution isn't a suicide pact. The fact that you do not understand it is why you're upset about consequences of speech in a private (read, non-government) action.


The whole thing is a slippery slope, from Day One! What do you think, "A Republic, if you can keep it" means?

Equal Opportunity Employment law has been upheld in all the courts which implies it is constitutional. As of today, the US Department of Justice does protect the rights of certain individuals against their private employers who may discriminate on the basis of race, religion, gender or sexual preference. Even if the ERA is not yet ratified, the government is in the business of protecting the rights of protected classes against private business discrimination. So again, either we adhere to this concept or we don't. What we have now is picking winners and losers based only on their political persuasion. And as I said, this is going to lead to disastrous consequences. The problem is, one side believes using the government to protect the rights of protected classes is perfectly acceptable under the constitution, while the other takes the position that the constitution only protects the people from government. This is how the double standard is perpetuated. If your employer can fire you for what you post on Twitter in your private time, then you do not have free speech, and neither do millions of others who may agree with you but for the sake of their livelihood remain silent. How do you propose we fix this? We are near the point where supporting Donald Trump is grounds for termination. Gina Carano spoke truth about Nazi Germany, historical facts, and she was fired. What we are approaching is mob rule, where a large group of thugs are bullying everyone else into a way of thinking. When the mob is in control, who do you stop them is there is no authority to step in?

And we are not just talking about employment. We also have the government forcing landlords to rent to protected classes and a number of other intrusions into private practices while at the same time landlords can deny rental to people who believe the election was stolen. Remember when doctors and dentists were forced to treat aids patients even if the doctors felt they were not equipped to protect themselves and their other patients from possibility of contracting the virus? But doctors can turn down patients who own guns, according to Democrats. Or how about the Supreme Court ordering pro-life protester to stay a certain distance away from Planned Parenthood facilities while allowing BLM into restaurants to harass patrons?

The government is deciding who to protect and who gets no protections. It is the law today, upheld by every court in the country, including the SCOTUS. If I had my way, like you I would allow private citizens and businesses to determine who they hire, who they fire, who they do business with and who they don't. But what we have today is not that.

 

[Creeper]

Great post Yim. How could these people understand any critical point when they don't understand the history she referenced? Corporate America is full of idiots and even the slightest hint of right leaning thought will get you fired. That's just sadly where we're at.

People need to think twice before posting on Twitter or social media in general. Free speech is no longer "free" and while I agree with the idea that the 1st Amendment protects me from the government, it should also protect me from my comments outside my workplace (with some exceptions). If I choose to attend a Trump rally or a protest and don't break the law, I should not find a pink slip on my work desk the following day. But in my company and most of corporate America, I have no doubt that's exactly what would happen. It's strictly designed to keep the masses in check.

Understand that there are several well funded left wing organizations who sole purpose is to cancel opposition voices. These group are well organized and practiced on how to approach major corporations and coerce them into acting against those who are targeted. It has been going on for years. When they see a social media comment they can twist into being offensive, they act quickly and forcefully, threatening major corporations with bad publicity of they do not act. Jesse Jackson started this practice many years ago. But new liberal organizations have taken it much further.

 

[Creeper]

This is as much of a critique of the Republican Party as it is the Dems. Republicans are weak. They fold, even when holding pocket aces and the Dems raise the stakes holding a 7-2 off suit. Look at how quickly they changed their tune after the riot on 1/6.

They lack all self-awareness and understanding of the issues or the vibe of the country. It's why Liz Chaney will get primaried and (hopefully) lose. And the cowards like Lindsay Graham and Mitch McConnell abandon the electorate the minute they have 6 more years in office and Trump is of no further use to them. I hope I live long enough to see these cowards and those like them challenged in the next election by Republicans with some backbone.

We have the "well meaning" conservatives who by their nature will always play by the rules they believe are the official rules. So many of these Republicans are self-righteous blowhards. Pomposity is their trade. Dems play by rules they make up as they go along, and they can do this because the media supports them.

Trump was the first guy to come along and play by the same rules Dems made for themselves. This is one reason they hate him. Republicans who harrumphed over Trump's words and tweets, played right into the Democrats hands. They made Democrats stronger. The rules are changed now. There is no point fighting under the Marquis de Queensbury rules when Democrats have changed to no holds barred.

Has anyone noticed how dishonest the Impeachment case the House managers made was? The took words out of context, edited videos, and outright lied to make their case. In another time, the outrage over the dishonesty in a serious proceeding like an impeachment trial would loud and universal. But this is the new reality. When in Rome do as the Romans do - or fail.

 

[Doomsday]

Equal Opportunity Employment law has been upheld in all the courts which implies it is constitutional.

I am happy I could educate you. Even though you moved the goal posts since the ERA and the EOE laws are two entirely different things. Neither is part of the Constitution, let's be clear.

I would allow private citizens and businesses to determine who they hire, who they fire, who they do business with and who they don't.

That is exactly what we have. Wait, you didn't get the memo? You want to be able to hang a sign on your door that says "blacks and messicans need not apply?" Or are you taking the whole thing too literally. You can hire and fire and do business with whoever you want and exclude whoever you want, but you don't fucking publicly make it a discriminatory reason. Are you daft? Or, do you really miss the time when we could openly discriminate?

The rest of the wall of text, overly verbose garbage you posted, not worth any time to read or reply to. Always amuses me when people can't dazzle with brilliance so they try to baffle with bullshit and post "the great wall of text" in reply.

Can you direct me to a Tweet that should have lead to her firing? Something offensive? I mean, everyone is offended today by something. So if this latest Tweet was the last straw, what were the first, second, third straws...etc.

As I was doing, we can only speculate. And since she conveniently deleted lots of her posts and there's no telling and there's also no telling what is "offensive" to others beside ourselves. It's completely beside the point anyway. They get to fire people. And nobody's rights were violated.

Corporate America is full of idiots and even the slightest hint of right leaning thought will get you fired. That's just sadly where we're at.

Funny how the worm turns though. For decades the TV networks, Hollywood and corporate America had to cow-tow to the religous right in this country or risk unemployment and/or financial ruin. Had to self-censor, can't have any cuss words or show anything the least bit indecent. Had to be careful what they said in public and particularly to reporters. I didn't see anyone except civil libertarians complaining about that.

"Cancel culture" isn't anything new, hell it goes wayyyyy back even before our own lifetimes. IN our lifetime we had people burning Beatles records and boycotting them because John Lennon dared jokingly say, "We're bigger than Jesus." IN our lifetime we saw the Dixie Chicks get fired from their record label and facing financial ruin for daring to say they were ashamed of their country because Boooooosh was Prez. The "cancel" was cheered and celebrated. My take on it was exactly what it is today on Carano.

The wailing, teeth gnashing and crying fowl today has to do with being on the wrong side of it for a change, after decades of dominance. The pendulum swings...

 

[Doomsday]

Understand that there are several well funded left wing organizations who sole purpose is to cancel opposition voices

You think you're educating anyone here? You're not. BOTH SIDES have the same type of shit. And it's been going on for decades. Bullies cry the loudest though, when things change and the pendulum swings the other way. Waaa. You would have been fine with it and in fact celebrating it, were she fired for posting Trump hate stuff.

 

[Doomsday]

Hey - Disney's not immune to consequences either. They exercised their rights in firing Carano and them that don't like it can exercise theirs by boycotting their ass and all of their sponsors. This shit ain't nuthin new. Get on the stick and get a boycott organized, or join one. Let your displeasure be known.

 

[Doomsday]

should have lead to her firing

Woah. Hold the phone, I kind of missed this before. Should have led to her firing according to who? According to what criteria and who sets that criteria? I am sure you don't mean the government. I am sure you mean, your own criteria and maybe some sort of "criteria of decency" not something we want as law to yet again increase the power and scope of the government. I am sure I'm reading you right.

 

[InternetKing]

FUCKING TRUMP GOT AWAY WITH IT!!!

Senate acquits Trump in historic second impeachment trial over Capitol riot

 

[Doomsday]

FUCKING TRUMP GOT AWAY WITH IT!!!

You expected any other result? If so you might need to check your meds.

EVERYONE including every far left pundit there is, KNEW the Senate was never going to convict. The HOUSE MANAGERS knew it too. It's just a POLITICAL EXERCISE exactly like the first "impeachment" was. There was NO chance and they knew that going in. There's still too many adults in the room.

You didn't learn anything from the first time? Jeez.

 

[Dodger12]

Woah. Hold the phone, I kind of missed this before. Should have led to her firing according to who? According to what criteria and who sets that criteria? I am sure you don't mean the government. I am sure you mean, your own criteria and maybe some sort of "criteria of decency" not something we want as law to yet again increase the power and scope of the government. I am sure I'm reading you right.

Not sure I understand the question. You posed a link explaining why she was fired. I read the link and it said nothing. I thought you may have seen a Tweet that I didn't see.

 

[Dodger12]

Funny how the worm turns though. For decades the TV networks, Hollywood and corporate America had to cow-tow to the religous right in this country or risk unemployment and/or financial ruin. Had to self-censor, can't have any cuss words or show anything the least bit indecent. Had to be careful what they said in public and particularly to reporters. I didn't see anyone except civil libertarians complaining about that.

"Cancel culture" isn't anything new, hell it goes wayyyyy back even before our own lifetimes. IN our lifetime we had people burning Beatles records and boycotting them because John Lennon dared jokingly say, "We're bigger than Jesus." IN our lifetime we saw the Dixie Chicks get fired from their record label and facing financial ruin for daring to say they were ashamed of their country because Boooooosh was Prez. The "cancel" was cheered and celebrated. My take on it was exactly what it is today on Carano.

Very good points, BTW. I believe the difference today is who controls social media. I still believe the country as a whole supports the flag and are patriotic. The difference today is that social media decides who gets cancelled. The Dixie Chicks attacked their fan base and basically cut their own throats. I would never deny them their right to say what they thought but there are financial consequences. Today, the arbitors of truth are Twitter, Apple, Facebook, and Google. "Cancelling" is far different then not financially supporting a business.

 

[Dodger12]

To add to my point above, today is different than the Dixie Chicks analogy because people are being cancelled in full by big tech. They are not being "cancelled" for financial reason that should be the driving factor in these decisions. Mike Lindell is being cancelled. His product is being taken off the market even though there is still a demand for them and people would buy them. His sales are up, from what I've heard and read and people support his beliefs. But when/if the credit card processing companies also cancel him which does not allow him to conduct his business, then the financial market (ie: consumer) is not deciding if his business lives or dies, but rather big tech. The Dixie Chicks could have found another label but their financial ruin was because people stopped buying their product, it wasn't artificially created by companies that did not allow them to sell their product.

 

[Doomsday]

You posed a link explaining why she was fired.

No, Man. The link was to provide more information. I speculated this wasn't her first issue with her employer. Apparently not, since it's revealed her publicist quit. The one she hired to manage her public image and to run down all the ground balls for her? Imagine quitting that six-figure job because your client continues to shit the bed.

The difference today is that social media decides who gets cancelled.

Social media and the internet are also why we hear about this kind of stuff, that's always gone on.

To add to my point above

You're making valid points about big tech, it's almost like the old days when the religious right controlled all the TV networks, advertising agencies and newspapers. The worm has turned and it only took them a couple of generations to turn it! But it's the same damn thing. It just has more reach than ever before.

MY point is and only ever was, idiots should not be evoking the Bill of Rights when they're talking about private action. We are NOT protected from the consequences of our speech. Never were. Most of us learn that as children the first time Mom slaps us upside the head for cussing.

Nobody remembers our Dad telling us to "in your work keep your mouth shut and your nose to the grindstone?" Lindell forgot it. So did Carano.

 

[Scot]

FUCKING TRUMP GOT AWAY WITH IT!!!

Senate acquits Trump in historic second impeachment trial over Capitol riot

You were surprised the first time he was acquitted too

That’s cute

 

[Doomsday]

McConnell said although he agrees Trump is guilty, he voted to acquit because in so many words, the Senate does not have legal standing over a pririvate citizen. Love the irony in that.

 

[yimyammer]

So did Carano.

for saying what?

if their interpretation of the instagram post is any indication of their understanding of her words, I have no reason to believe her prior statements were interpreted correctly either. It feels to me like lazy people felt a backlash via social media (which could be large or small in actual numbers) and then caved to the pressure which seems in vogue these days

its nothing like growing up where you got popped in the mouth for smarting off to the wrong person. Seems to me this is like saying the sky is blue and getting fired because the mob thinks its grey

 

[yimyammer]

McConnell said although he agrees Trump is guilty, he voted to acquit because in so many words, the Senate does not have legal standing over a pririvate citizen. Love the irony in that.

equivication at its finest?

 

[Doomsday]

in vogue these days

It's always been en vogue. It's why John Wayne and Clint Eastwood created their own production companies - so that they couldn't be blackballed as conservatives in Hollywood. It's also why for the most part they kept their mouths shut and kept their nose to the grindstone.

 

[Doomsday]

idiots should not be evoking the Bill of Rights when they're talking about private action.

It's important you cats understand what this means to me. When I see someone evoking the 1st Amendment in regards to private action, I immediately think they are either ignorant or stupid. Ignorant because they don't understand the Constitution, or stupid because they want the government controlling private action.

I don't disagree or take umbrage at your opinions regarding the "cancel culture" as it's now called, I don't have any illusions that the playing field is even or that this shit is fair - life ain't fair but that's another point. I take exception at tossing around the Bill of Rights like it's a catchall go-to get out of jail free card for use only for those you agree with. It's not a get out of jail free card for anyone and it does NOT apply in any way, to private action. It only fucking applies to government action. Everything else is fair game.

With the right of free speech comes responsibility. Speech has consequences as does action. No doubt, bank robbers wish they could call it free speech. It doesn't fucking work that way. I once worked for a company that was owned and operated by top drawer bible thumping evangelist christians. Of course I disagree with them, but also of course because I am intelligent, they never had any idea whatsoever of the fact. I read the fucking room and knew this was not the time or place for my fucking opinion on religion. They thought I was the greatest guy ever, I was always getting raises and bonuses. Ignorance is bliss. Let them stay ignorant. You don't have a mandate to shoot off your fucking mouth and you don't have any right at all to bite the hand that feeds you.

It's called "adulting." And I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone too stupid to know when to keep their fucking mouth shut.

 

[yimyammer]

It's always been en vogue. It's why John Wayne and Clint Eastwood created their own production companies - so that they couldn't be blackballed as conservatives in Hollywood. It's also why for the most part they kept their mouths shut and kept their nose to the grindstone.

meaning Hollywood has always leaned liberal or anti-conservative (or whatever pejorative is being used then or now)?

I've never felt or noticed much of what you've mentioned outside of Hollywood. Now it seems pervasive everywhere and its not based on anything that makes sense to me. If a person was anti alcohol and was blackballing folks who drank, you can see their position at least was logically consistent with their beliefs (however antiquated, wrong or stupid they may be).

Now it seems folks are either straight making shit up and claiming the person being cancelled said it or they take the cancelled persons words, toss out all known meaning of those words and then reinterpret them into whatever meaning they want to construe, get offended and start the witch hunt to cancel

If Gina had come out and said things that were straight up racist and/or anti-Semitic, then I could understand the outrage and even the firing. What troubles me is the firing appears to be based on something she never said. I and I'm sure Gina could live with getting fired over people understanding what was said, not liking it and then pressing to fire but not understanding what was said, scream she said something she didn't say and demand her to be fired for something she never said is straight lunacy and something I've never noticed before, in Hollywood or elsewhere