The never-ending POTUS Election thread....

[Scot]

Until the FBI specifically calls those groups out (like they have WS groups) I can’t put them on the same level.


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Has the FBI officially classified WS groups as terrorists? Google searches haven’t shown that they have. I’m not saying that the FBI hasn’t designated WS groups as terrorists. I’m just saying that it’s not coming up on the few quick searches I just did

I do however remember that when Trump designated Antifa as a terrorist grouping he also designated the KKK as one too.

 

[MrB]

Has the FBI officially classified WS groups as terrorists? Google searches haven’t shown that they have. I’m not saying that the FBI hasn’t designated WS groups as terrorists. I’m just saying that it’s not coming up on the few quick searches I just did

I do however remember that when Trump designated Antifa as a terrorist grouping he also designated the KKK as one too.

Google right wing extremists and CSIS.


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[Dodger12]

According to Fox News there has to be evidence of widespread fraud in order for Trump’s lawyers to have a valid case. There’s some level of fraud in every election. Is that great or acceptable, no it’s not. But that’s why there has to be proof of widespread fraud. The amount of fraudulent ballots also have to be enough to overturn the election. I might be wrong on that so if I am someone can correct me. And if there is fraud I hope they find out, and find out who is responsible, I seriously doubt they will though.

Trump has been telling you for months not to accept the results because he knew he was going to lose. So I’m not surprised that you guys are crying foul.


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Mail in voting was banned in many, if not most countries because they know better. It's common sense that it presents a huge fraud issue. France banned it in 1975. Biden will win but don't be a shill and not admit the obvious. This isn't the country we want where our elections are compromised and lack integrity. Sooner or later, if this continues, the other side will do the same to level the playing field.

Trump warned about what would happen and he was absolutely right. He and many others predicted exactly what would happen. You voted for a corpse who supported and was friends with racists who didn't want to live in a racial jungle. #Hypocrisy

Why Do Most Countries Ban Mail-In Ballots?: They Have Seen Massive Vote Fraud Problems

Thirty-seven states have so far changed their mail-in voting procedures this year in response to the Coronavirus. Despite frequent claims that President Trump’s

papers.ssrn.com

Voting Fraud Is a Real Concern. Just Look Around the World

If concern about voter fraud with mail-in ballots is delusional, it is a delusion that is shared by most of the world.

www.newsweek.com

"These countries have learned the hard way what happens when mail-in ballots aren't secured. They have also discovered how hard it is to detect vote buying when both those buying and selling the votes have an incentive to hide the exchange.

France banned mail-in voting in 1975 because of massive fraud in Corsica, where postal ballots were stolen or bought and voters cast multiple votes. Mail-in ballots were used to cast the votes of dead people."

 

[Scot]

Google right wing extremists and CSIS.


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So the answer to WS groups/KKK being classified as terrorists by the FBI is no

Got it

 

[MrB]

Mail in voting was banned in many, if not most countries because they know better. It's common sense that it presents a huge fraud issue. France banned it in 1975. Biden will win but don't be a shill and not admit the obvious. This isn't the country we want where our elections are compromised and lack integrity. Sooner or later, if this continues, the other side will do the same to level the playing field.

Trump warned about what would happen and he was absolutely right. He and many others predicted exactly what would happen. You voted for a corpse who supported and was friends with racists who didn't want to live in a racial jungle. #Hypocrisy

Why Do Most Countries Ban Mail-In Ballots?: They Have Seen Massive Vote Fraud Problems

Thirty-seven states have so far changed their mail-in voting procedures this year in response to the Coronavirus. Despite frequent claims that President Trump’s

papers.ssrn.com

Voting Fraud Is a Real Concern. Just Look Around the World

If concern about voter fraud with mail-in ballots is delusional, it is a delusion that is shared by most of the world.

www.newsweek.com

"These countries have learned the hard way what happens when mail-in ballots aren't secured. They have also discovered how hard it is to detect vote buying when both those buying and selling the votes have an incentive to hide the exchange.

France banned mail-in voting in 1975 because of massive fraud in Corsica, where postal ballots were stolen or bought and voters cast multiple votes. Mail-in ballots were used to cast the votes of dead people."

I understand that. But just because there is a chance of widespread fraud doesn’t mean that’s it’s actually happening. If there is though then there should be proof, which we will find out in the courts if there is. If there is widespread fraud there will be evidence. There would have to be a lot of people involved and someone will fail to cover their tracks 100%. But if nothing gets found in court then you have to open your eyes that most of the American people did not want him.


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[MrB]

So the answer to WS groups/KKK being classified as terrorists by the FBI is no

Got it

Didn’t read anything there did you. Your answer is in there. But again, if you don’t want to see it that’s unfortunate but it doesn’t change the fact that they are very dangerous groups and the POTUS should not be pandering to them.


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[Dodger12]

I understand that. But just because there is a chance of widespread fraud doesn’t mean that’s it’s actually happening. If there is though then there should be proof, which we will find out in the courts if there is. If there is widespread fraud there will be evidence. There would have to be a lot of people involved and someone will fail to cover their tracks 100%. But if nothing gets found in court then you have to open your eyes that most of the American people did not want him.


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It'll be uncovered but more so after the election. There is no way with the limited time-frame to get to the bottom of what happened. It is interesting that, thus far, any suspect activity seemed to benefit one side. And it's also suspect that much of this activity occurred in Democratic strongholds known for a history of fraud. Mail in voting and ballot harvesting should be banned.

 

[Scot]

Didn’t read anything there did you. Your answer is in there. But again, if you don’t want to see it that’s unfortunate but it doesn’t change the fact that they are very dangerous groups and the POTUS should not be pandering to them.


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That was WAY too long of an article to read while the game is on. I’m not going to read that long of an article in between plays or during commercials to find the one single sentence that proves your point.

So yes, you are correct. I did not read it all. I skimmed thru it and didn’t easily find the answer. Just like I didn’t find the answer when I searched for it.

You would think searching if the FBI classified the KKK as a terrorist group would be pretty cut and dry. Either yes or no. Alas, that is not the case.

 

[MrB]

It'll be uncovered but moreso after the election. There is no way with the limited time-frame to get to the bottom of what happened. It is interesting that, thus far, any suspect activity seemed to benefit one side. And it's also suspect that much of this activity occurred in Democratic stronghold known for a history of fraud. Mail in voting and ballot harvesting should be banned.

So what exactly is being alleged? How are they only harvesting ballots for 1 side? Or are they being accused of harvesting hundreds of thousands of random votes? It just seems like there would have to be a lot of people involved to receive, open, and sort hundreds of thousands of votes. If that did happen though like I said I would expect there would be proof somewhere.


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[yimyammer]

I didn’t try it so I can’t speak personally

But the reports that I (saw on my local news station) were that ppl showed up to vote in person and were told that they were not allowed to vote at the polling location because their mail in ballot had already been received and counted. The assumption is that their ballot was stolen somewhere along the way to their residence and filled out then mailed in by someone other than the person who’s name was on the ballot.

So by those reports a person would not be allowed to legally vote more than once. But your ballot can clearly be stolen and used by someone else as the reports were stating.

seems like a very difficult thing to coordinate in large enough numbers to make a difference, especially in Califronia

I mean if this was a coordinated effort by the Democrats as some seem to believe, why bother to do this in a state like California where everyone votes overwhelmingly democrat?

I'm sure the system needs much improvement but at this juncture I'm more inclined to believe Trump lost this election due to his inability to avoid saying dumb or mean shit that gives fuel to a media and entertainment industry that is already leaning anti-Trump and anti-Republican (imho) and fomenting rage against him since his election. The tenor of reporting and news coupled with the rage machine social media has become are some of my biggest concerns.

If we can get witnesses under oath to testify wherever fraud, etc has occurred, Im all for it, regardless of which party is at fault

 

[Scot]

That’s what I said earlier in the thread.

There would be no incentive to try to cast enough fraudulent votes in CA to even scratch the surface of making a dent in the Dem lead here in CA. The fraud would have to be so massive that it would be impossible to hide completely.

“IF” Trump has or can find proof then I’m all for blowing this entire election up completely!

Burn the system to the ground if you have the proof!!!

Create real change where we can fix a broken election process and root out the ability for fraud as much as possible.

Requiring ID at the polls to prove who you are prior to voting would be one sure fire way to fix MOST of the ability for voter fraud. I simply can not understand how anyone can be against requiring a person to prove their identity prior to them voting unless you are trying to vote illegally or cast fraudulent votes.

Now on the other hand, if Trump doesn’t have proof and is just throwing a temper tantrum because he lost, then he just needs to go the fuck away quietly.

 

[yimyammer]

There was the “stand back, and stand by” comment that he made when asked to denounce those groups, specifically the proud boys. I know he has since denounced them but that was not his initial reaction. The FBI has labeled these groups as the greatest threat to our society. He’s referred to others with similar mindsets as “good people”, he also tweeted a video of older guy with a Trump flag yelling “white power”.


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Thank you for your reply but with all due respect, the claim Trump never disavowed the KKK, White Supremacy, et al is one of the many examples I've found that supports the idea the media is going after Trump instead of trying to report the news.

The "good people" comment is misstated as well as he was referring to people from both sides of the issue and unless I can see the tweet by Trump and any comments made in the tweet of the video of the older guy with a Trump flag yelling “white power” I'm inclined to believe its more subterfuge but if you can post the tweet, I'll re-examine your claim

IMHO, he wasn't signaling to the proud boys, he was repeating what Chris Wallace wanted him to say and he got his words jumbled (like we see Biden, Harris and all human beings do for that matter), then of course everyone who hates Trump concluded it was some kind of signal to the Proud Boys and of course the Proud Boys used his word fumble to suit their purposes as well. In my estimation, Trump was merely trying to address the question he had been asked ad nauseam since before he was even elected.

Here is Chris Walace asking THE SAME QUESTION in 2016 and Trump couldn't be more clear:




I don't give a fuck about Trump, but its clear some expect him to bark like a dog on command and if he doesnt say exactly what they want, all kinds of nonsense gets attributed him and in my view much of the chagrin, frustration and anger directed toward him is born from misinformation or outright inaccuracies.

I'm open to hear better examples of why he's a racist but so far I'm not persuaded by your argument

 

[yimyammer]

There is ZERO chance that they would consider allowing a non white into their group.

come on man, there's always exceptions:

 

[Dodger12]

I understand that. But just because there is a chance of widespread fraud doesn’t mean that’s it’s actually happening. If there is though then there should be proof, which we will find out in the courts if there is. If there is widespread fraud there will be evidence. There would have to be a lot of people involved and someone will fail to cover their tracks 100%. But if nothing gets found in court then you have to open your eyes that most of the American people did not want him.


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Fair answer B and I can respect that. The question is who can determine how much fraud is enough to declare a winner? The fact that we may have had fraud in multiple states is proof, in and of itself, of a massive and orchestrated fraud. No one can put a number on it for the simple fact that it's fraud. The Supreme Court will kick it back to the states to decide, if I had to guess.

In any event, I'm sick that we're discussing this in America. Fraud in our elections? It sickens me.

 

[cml750]

I have done my homework. He’s done it a handful of times. There was the old guy in Florida yelling white power. There was the caravan of trucks with Trump flags that are yelling white power. There was the Charlottesville incident. In all cases he referred to them as good people.

So either he’s pandering to the white supremacy groups/people or he’s too ignorant to see how his comments give groups like that power. Neither can be accepted or tolerated. I don’t believe he’s ignorant so he has to be doing it with a purpose.


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I do not keep up with everything he has said so I do not know about a couple of the items you mention but saying he called white nationalist good people at Charlottesville is complete and utter bullshit. You were told a lie by your media source that never bothered to give you the entire quote from what he said. I will help you out by quoting it below. with a link. It is funny I had to go to another search engine other than Google to find that but it is quoted below. If you say he called the neo-nazis or white nationalist good people after reading the full quote below then you are just been willfully ignorant.

Trump Didn't Call Neo-Nazis 'Fine People.' Here's Proof. | RealClearPolitics

News anchors and pundits have repeated lies about Donald Trump and race so often that some of these narratives seem true, even to Americans who embrace the fruits of the presidents policies. The...

www.realclearpolitics.com

“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

 

[Scot]

I’m under no illusion that there will be enough proof to overturn the election

It may have occurred, but I don’t think they will be able to prove that enough of it occurred to change the election.

Unless the proof is so overwhelming that no one in the country could deny it as fact then there is no way to overturn the election results.

It would literally tear this country apart

If they can prove fraud I hope it’s at least sufficient enough for everyone to agree that the process needs to change to make sure our future elections are safe and secure from fraud.

 

[MrB]

I do not keep up with everything he has said so I do not know about a couple of the items you mention but saying he called white nationalist good people at Charlottesville is complete and utter bullshit. You were told a lie by your media source that never bothered to give you the entire quote from what he said. I will help you out by quoting it below. with a link. It is funny I had to go to another search engine other than Google to find that but it is quoted below. If you say he called the neo-nazis or white nationalist good people after reading the full quote below then you are just been willfully ignorant.

Trump Didn't Call Neo-Nazis 'Fine People.' Here's Proof. | RealClearPolitics

News anchors and pundits have repeated lies about Donald Trump and race so often that some of these narratives seem true, even to Americans who embrace the fruits of the presidents policies. The...

www.realclearpolitics.com

As I said to others here it’s unfortunate that you don’t see it or refuse to acknowledge it. I honestly wish you did but at the end of the day enough people do see it and he was voted out of office. His rhetoric and pandering won’t be tolerated and America doesn’t want it.


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[MrB]

Fair answer B and I can respect that. The question is who can determine how much fraud is enough to declare a winner? The fact that we may have had fraud in multiple states is proof, in and of itself, of a massive and orchestrated fraud. No one can put a number on it for the simple fact that it's fraud. The Supreme Court will kick it back to the states to decide, if I had to guess.

In any event, I'm sick that we're discussing this in America. Fraud in our elections? It sickens me.

That’s where proof is going to have to come into play. What exact fraud are Trump and his lawyers alleging to have happened and where’s the proof? Based on whatever proof he has the courts will decide how much fraud is enough fraud. I will say that even if it is deemed to not be enough fraud, I hope they still go after and prosecute anyone found to be committing the fraud.


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[yimyammer]

Didn’t read anything there did you. Your answer is in there. But again, if you don’t want to see it that’s unfortunate but it doesn’t change the fact that they are very dangerous groups and the POTUS should not be pandering to them.


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I can see these groups have globbed onto to Trump but I'm not clear how and why you think Trump is pandering to them. Multiple videos have been posted in this thread where its indisputable that he's disavowed all these groups for years, even before he was president.

What else should he do (serious question)?

Just because a bunch of jackasses support Biden, Obama or whomever doesnt mean they in turn are pandering to those groups

This constant refrain that Trump is a racist reminds of the constant refrain that Obama wasn't an American citizen and needs to show his birth certificate, IMHO, both are inaccurate accusations

 

[yimyammer]

That was WAY too long of an article

which article?