superpunk

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In the ongoing battle of the budget, President Obama has done something very cruel. Declaring that this time he won’t negotiate with himself, he has refused to lay out a proposal reflecting what he thinks Republicans want. Instead, he has demanded that Republicans themselves say, explicitly, what they want. And guess what: They can’t or won’t do it.

No, really. While there has been a lot of bluster from the G.O.P. about how we should reduce the deficit with spending cuts, not tax increases, no leading figures on the Republican side have been able or willing to specify what, exactly, they want to cut.

And there’s a reason for this reticence. The fact is that Republican posturing on the deficit has always been a con game, a play on the innumeracy of voters and reporters. Now Mr. Obama has demanded that the G.O.P. put up or shut up — and the response is an aggrieved mumble.

Here’s where we are right now: As his opening bid in negotiations, Mr. Obama has proposed raising about $1.6 trillion in additional revenue over the next decade, with the majority coming from letting the high-end Bush tax cuts expire and the rest from measures to limit tax deductions. He would also cut spending by about $400 billion, through such measures as giving Medicare the ability to bargain for lower drug prices.

The point is that when you put Republicans on the spot and demand specifics about how they’re going to make good on their posturing about spending and deficits, they come up empty. There’s no there there.

Republicans have howled in outrage. Senator Orrin Hatch, delivering the G.O.P. reply to the president’s weekly address, denounced the offer as a case of “bait and switch,” bearing no relationship to what Mr. Obama ran on in the election. In fact, however, the offer is more or less the same as Mr. Obama’s original 2013 budget proposal and also closely tracks his campaign literature.

So what are Republicans offering as an alternative? They say they want to rely mainly on spending cuts instead. Which spending cuts? Ah, that’s a mystery. In fact, until late last week, as far as I can tell, no leading Republican had been willing to say anything specific at all about how spending should be cut.

The veil lifted a bit when Senator Mitch McConnell, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, finally mentioned a few things — raising the Medicare eligibility age, increasing Medicare premiums for high-income beneficiaries and changing the inflation adjustment for Social Security. But it’s not clear whether these represent an official negotiating position — and in any case, the arithmetic just doesn’t work.

Start with raising the Medicare age. This is, as I’ve argued in the past, a terrible policy idea. But even aside from that, it’s just not a big money saver, largely because 65- and 66-year-olds have much lower health costs than the average Medicare recipient. When the Congressional Budget Office analyzed the likely fiscal effects of a rise in the eligibility age, it found that it would save only $113 billion over the next decade and have little effect on the longer-run trajectory of Medicare costs.

Increasing premiums for the affluent would yield even less; a 2010 study by the budget office put the 10-year savings at only about $20 billion.

Changing the inflation adjustment for Social Security would save a bit more — by my estimate, about $185 billion over the next decade. But put it all together, and the things Mr. McConnell was talking about would amount to only a bit over $300 billion in budget savings — a fifth of what Mr. Obama proposes in revenue gains.

The point is that when you put Republicans on the spot and demand specifics about how they’re going to make good on their posturing about spending and deficits, they come up empty. There’s no there there.

And there never was. Republicans claim to be for much smaller government, but as a political matter they have always attacked government spending in the abstract, never coming clean with voters about the reality that big cuts in government spending can happen only if we sharply curtail very popular programs. In fact, less than a month ago the Romney/Ryan campaign was attacking Mr. Obama for, yes, cutting Medicare.

Now Republicans find themselves boxed in. With taxes scheduled to rise on Jan. 1 in the absence of an agreement, they can’t play their usual game of just saying no to tax increases and pretending that they have a deficit reduction plan. And the president, by refusing to help them out by proposing G.O.P.-friendly spending cuts, has deprived them of political cover. If Republicans really want to slash popular programs, they will have to propose those cuts themselves.

So while the fiscal cliff — still a bad name for the looming austerity bomb, but I guess we’re stuck with it — is a bad thing from an economic point of view, it has had at least one salutary political effect. For it has finally laid bare the con that has always been at the core of the G.O.P.’s political strategy.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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The military has even gone so far as to outline things that they would like to cut like the plane, tank, and naval fleets as they understand that cutbacks are going to be needed. For some reason though the chair of the armed services committee not only rejects the pentagons expertise and calls for more tanks and planes. GOP constituents are in no small part the current retiring generation so medicare or SS won't be touched.

What's left? Bashing AFDC and food stamps gets some play but that has little veracity after the failure in the 90s of the Contract with America.

When put on the spot even Paul Ryan backed away from his senate budget proposals because the GOP is a party without direction or any unifying purpose beyond denying any actions their opponents attempt.
 

JBond

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Hi Fuzzy. Good to see you.

Umm...we pay for medicare and social security. Time to end the free ride for the damn deadbeats. But then democrats would not be able to buy votes so it will never happen. Abolishing public unions would save a ton, and stop funding stupid things like abortion mills. There is plenty of crap to cut.
 

JBond

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Hey Bob. Just found this place. The CBZ has fallen apart.

and spunk...you know I am not a republican. How dare you slander me you little liberal cock sucker.

Cheers!
 

Bob Sacamano

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Hey Bob. Just found this place. The CBZ has fallen apart.

and spunk...you know I am not a republican. How dare you slander me you little liberal cock sucker.

Cheers!

Wasup? You going to contribute here?
 

JBond

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I think I will. During my test drive I ran across sp and had to say hi. We are good buds.

I'll try to post in a more productive manner. I was just so excited to find sp.

Nice little site you have going here. I was wondering where everyone went. bbgun is a mod? This should be interesting.
 

Dodger12

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bbgun is a mod? This should be interesting.

Be careful, he hands out bans like it's candy. The fact that you mentioned CZ will now put you squarely in his cross hairs......
 

JBond

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I think I was looking for "guy who comments on month-old threads"

He bud...most of the threads in this section are very old. Not much activity. I will try to add a alternative view to this area, but based on the enrollment of the site, I am completely out numbered.

I am more interested in the Cowboys related stuff, but I will be throwing out some topics here also. We can have a little fun, but I hope we also get to have some honest discussions. In the past you and I have gone at it, but maybe we can but away the hyperbole and discuss things in a rational manner.

PS. Will the democrats ever pass a budget? It's been a while. The Keynesian fraud has been proven to be just that. 2 to 1 multiplier for government spending.....sigh. You must be disappointed it has not worked the way the little school books said it would.
 
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FuzzyLumpkins

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Hey Bob. Just found this place. The CBZ has fallen apart.

and spunk...you know I am not a republican. How dare you slander me you little liberal cock sucker.

Cheers!

Yeah I am pretty much fuck that place. Reality is so concerned that it be a 'family friendly' locale while he lets asshats bring up the stupidest shit. When I try and tell people to raise the bar I get my shit deleted. that moral responsibility thread just makes me want to punch someone in the face.

The guys here are malcontents for sure and you cannot really blame them but at least they aren't a bunch of whiny dimwits.

punks over there too and you may hate his politics, at lest he tries to raise the bar too.

anyway rant off.

and the current generation in charge has decreased the tax rate nationally from about 19% in the 70s to 12% as it now. started with the yuppies and we have been eating shit ever since. Romney was a douche but he is right in saying that half of americans don't pay taxes. I see people complaining about getting 50 whole dollars a month withheld from their paychecks. I mean why should you have to contribute when you can fiat yourself free health care and a pension and not have to pay shit?

I am fine with paying more taxes just like I am fine with paying off my credit card bills and my mortgage payment. Baby boomers that are tea party types? them I really want to punch in the face. What we need is a wealth tax so they don't get to ride off in the sunset without having to pay shit.

anyway rant off again. insomnia makes me angry and now its too late to take some ambien.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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J, they changed the laws so you no longer need a budget passed like you used to. thats why now you see the debt limit being the issue and both parties presenting budgets they know they have zero chance of passing.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Don't worry fuzz. You'll be back at CZ, narcing our activities here in no time.

Narcing? What kind of vagina are you? I think your disdain for Hostile borders on obsessive. I have told you that shit here. Now it's narcing? I won't say anything over there that I wont and really havent already said here. This kind of proves my point about the obsessing perhaps even paranoia though.

You should take heart that reality obliterates any even allusion to this place. He probably feels paranoid too.
 

Sheik

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Of all the lame rules of that place, the "public questioning of moderators", that HAS to be the gayest.

Are they afraid that if the questioning snowballs, the little people might overthrow the staff and take over the operation?

I really thought Reality was cleaning that place up when he removed Hostile(not guessing, he was forced out), DallasEast, and Casmith from staff. But he managed to fuck that whole thing up by adding Justbob, Idgit, and Jobberone.

ScipioCowboy is a real douche, but I don't hear many people complaining about him.
 

JBond

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J, they changed the laws so you no longer need a budget passed like you used to. thats why now you see the debt limit being the issue and both parties presenting budgets they know they have zero chance of passing.

I am aware the dems changed the law to avoid accountability. The wars are over and the bamster is still spending nearly a trillion a year more than Bush on average.

New boss...same as the old boss. The left used to freak out about Bush. If they were honest they would realize Obama is just a shittier version that spends even more and cares less about personal rights and privacy, but because he is a young black hipster...it's all good.
 
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