superpunk

Pro Bowler
Messages
11,003
Reaction score
0
The democratic process relies on the assumption that citizens (the majority of them, at least) can recognize the best political candidate, or best policy idea, when they see it. But a growing body of research has revealed an unfortunate aspect of the human psyche that would seem to disprove this notion, and imply instead that democratic elections produce mediocre leadership and policies.

The research, led by David Dunning, a psychologist at Cornell University, shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people's ideas. For example, if people lack expertise on tax reform, it is very difficult for them to identify the candidates who are actual experts. They simply lack the mental tools needed to make meaningful judgments.

As a result, no amount of information or facts about political candidates can override the inherent inability of many voters to accurately evaluate them. On top of that, "very smart ideas are going to be hard for people to adopt, because most people don’t have the sophistication to recognize how good an idea is," Dunning told Life's Little Mysteries.

He and colleague Justin Kruger, formerly of Cornell and now of New York University, have demonstrated again and again that people are self-delusional when it comes to their own intellectual skills. Whether the researchers are testing people's ability to rate the funniness of jokes, the correctness of grammar, or even their own performance in a game of chess, the duo has found that people always assess their own performance as "above average" — even people who, when tested, actually perform at the very bottom of the pile. [Incompetent People Too Ignorant to Know It]

We're just as undiscerning about the skills of others as about ourselves. "To the extent that you are incompetent, you are a worse judge of incompetence in other people," Dunning said. In one study, the researchers asked students to grade quizzes that tested for grammar skill. "We found that students who had done worse on the test itself gave more inaccurate grades to other students." Essentially, they didn't recognize the correct answer even when they saw it.

The reason for this disconnect is simple: "If you have gaps in your knowledge in a given area, then you’re not in a position to assess your own gaps or the gaps of others," Dunning said. Strangely though, in these experiments, people tend to readily and accurately agree on who the worst performers are, while failing to recognize the best performers.

The most incompetent among us serve as canaries in the coal mine signifying a larger quandary in the concept of democracy; truly ignorant people may be the worst judges of candidates and ideas, Dunning said, but we all suffer from a degree of blindness stemming from our own personal lack of expertise.

Mato Nagel, a sociologist in Germany, recently implemented Dunning and Kruger's theories by computer-simulating a democratic election. In his mathematical model of the election, he assumed that voters' own leadership skills were distributed on a bell curve — some were really good leaders, some, really bad, but most were mediocre — and that each voter was incapable of recognizing the leadership skills of a political candidate as being better than his or her own. When such an election was simulated, candidates whose leadership skills were only slightly better than average always won.

Nagel concluded that democracies rarely or never elect the best leaders. Their advantage over dictatorships or other forms of government is merely that they "effectively prevent lower-than-average candidates from becoming leaders."
 

Bob Sacamano

All-Pro
Messages
26,436
Reaction score
3
Didn't John Adams say that democracy was the worst form of government? Or was that Ben Franklin?
 

Cythim

2
Messages
3,919
Reaction score
0
This is exactly why Santorum has been denouncing college education and asking his followers and would-be followers to stay dumb to avoid being converted to a church hating liberal.
 

superpunk

Pro Bowler
Messages
11,003
Reaction score
0
This is exactly why Santorum has been denouncing college education and asking his followers and would-be followers to stay dumb to avoid being converted to a church hating liberal.

Yes being exposed to new ideas is devastating to social conservatism.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
Messages
58,597
Reaction score
9,072
This is exactly why Santorum has been denouncing college education and asking his followers and would-be followers to stay dumb to avoid being converted to a church hating liberal.

You could actually say the same thing about democrats and public eduation, along with their undying support for teacher unions who hate anything to do with school choice, which should absolutely be allowed.
 

Cythim

2
Messages
3,919
Reaction score
0
You could actually say the same thing about democrats and public eduation, along with their undying support for teacher unions who hate anything to do with school choice, which should absolutely be allowed.

You are trying to connect dots that aren't even on the same page. Teacher unions are trying to protect their meager salaries, not keep America dumb. Sending funds to private schools does not fix the state of public education or help the majority of students who will not utilize school choice.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
Messages
58,597
Reaction score
9,072
You are trying to connect dots that aren't even on the same page. Teacher unions are trying to protect their meager salaries, not keep America dumb. Sending funds to private schools does not fix the state of public education or help the majority of students who will not utilize school choice.

Dude, private schools are doing a ton better job than public education is of actually EDUCATING. As a parent I want my kid to have the best education possible. It should be my choice if I want my kid educated in a private school, and by allowing school voucher programs that would make it possible for not only me, but 10's of thousands of others who want to do the same. The product they (private education) is eons better than most public education systems.

Teacher unions hate the idea because they cant compete, and they want to continue to reward mediocrity within. School voucher programs are absolutely the enemy of Teacher unions.

There's alot of research on it. Maybe instead of being a blind liberal you should check into some of it.
 

Bob Sacamano

All-Pro
Messages
26,436
Reaction score
3
Dude, private schools are doing a ton better job than public education is of actually EDUCATING. As a parent I want my kid to have the best education possible. It should be my choice if I want my kid educated in a private school, and by allowing school voucher programs that would make it possible for not only me, but 10's of thousands of others who want to do the same. The product they (private education) is eons better than most public education systems.

Teacher unions hate the idea because they cant compete, and they want to continue to reward mediocrity within. School voucher programs are absolutely the enemy of Teacher unions.

There's alot of research on it. Maybe instead of being a blind liberal you should check into some of it.

Of course they are. They have better resources to teach with. That's why most Catholic school educations are not free.
 

Cythim

2
Messages
3,919
Reaction score
0
Dude, private schools are doing a ton better job than public education is of actually EDUCATING. As a parent I want my kid to have the best education possible. It should be my choice if I want my kid educated in a private school, and by allowing school voucher programs that would make it possible for not only me, but 10's of thousands of others who want to do the same. The product they (private education) is eons better than most public education systems.

Teacher unions hate the idea because they cant compete, and they want to continue to reward mediocrity within. School voucher programs are absolutely the enemy of Teacher unions.

There's alot of research on it. Maybe instead of being a blind liberal you should check into some of it.

Maybe instead of blindly labeling someone you should check into what they actually say. I know private schools are better, This isn't about what is better because that is a universal truth. The public education system is broken and you want to reduce the funding so that a small percent of the population can benefit. I would love to have this program so I can take advantage of it, but that does not make it a good program and I will not support it. You cannot fix the problem by taking money away from public schools. We could just get rid of the DoED and give anyone who sends their kid to private school a tax credit with the money we save.

The unions are doing what unions always do, look out for the best interest of those who are in the union. They are not opposing legislation in order to keep America dumb, they are doing it to preserve their salaries.
 

Cythim

2
Messages
3,919
Reaction score
0
Of course they are. They have better resources to teach with. That's why most Catholic school educations are not free.

Not only better resources, the demographics are such that it is a better learning environment.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
Messages
58,597
Reaction score
9,072
Of course they are. They have better resources to teach with. That's why most Catholic school educations are not free.

Nor should they be free.

But I firmly do believe my tax dollars should be able to go towards the school/s of my choice for my children. If I dont want to have my kid attend some substandard public school I should be able to put him into a private school and a voucher program allows me to do that without having to double dip.
 

superpunk

Pro Bowler
Messages
11,003
Reaction score
0
Nor should they be free.

But I firmly do believe my tax dollars should be able to go towards the school/s of my choice for my children. If I dont want to have my kid attend some substandard public school I should be able to put him into a private school and a voucher program allows me to do that without having to double dip.

Your tax dollars aren't a savings account that can be selectively appropriated where you would like.

That's not how a society works.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
Messages
58,597
Reaction score
9,072
Your tax dollars aren't a savings account that can be selectively appropriated where you would like.

That's not how a society works.

Then they should run the school systems properly and hire quality teachers that get proven, quality results.

if they cant, there should be no issue with yanking my tax dollars for said shit schools, and instead using them for a private school that does deliver top notch education.

"Society" benefits when children get the best possible education. Liberal douche bag politicians benefit when schools produce mediocrity.
 

superpunk

Pro Bowler
Messages
11,003
Reaction score
0
Maybe you'd like to pay higher taxes so they can afford to pay teachers more, thereby attracting more qualified candidates to the profession. Or we can do it your way and only children whose parents have money will get an education, which will further destroy our ability to keep pace with the rest of the world, and make it even more impossible for the lower classes to move upward than it already is in this country, which is among the worst in the world when it comes to upward mobility.

Brilliantly selfish and idiotic plan, dbair.
 
Messages
46,859
Reaction score
5
Maybe you'd like to pay higher taxes so they can afford to pay teachers more,


Or.... maybe we could re-direct some of the billions of tax dollars the government already takes in and literally wastes giving blind "foreign aid" to countries that harbor terrorists and otherwise obviously are not allies.
 

dbair1967

Administrator
Messages
58,597
Reaction score
9,072
Maybe you'd like to pay higher taxes so they can afford to pay teachers more, thereby attracting more qualified candidates to the profession. Or we can do it your way and only children whose parents have money will get an education, which will further destroy our ability to keep pace with the rest of the world, and make it even more impossible for the lower classes to move upward than it already is in this country, which is among the worst in the world when it comes to upward mobility.

Brilliantly selfish and idiotic plan, dbair.

Teachers make decent pay now. 10-20 yrs ago maybe they didnt, but they do now.

And the level of retirement plan pay and employee benefits for them is ridiculous.
 

superpunk

Pro Bowler
Messages
11,003
Reaction score
0
Or.... maybe we could re-direct some of the billions of tax dollars the government already takes in and literally wastes giving blind "foreign aid" to countries that harbor terrorists and otherwise obviously are not allies.

A nice tangent of an idea. But the last thing we should do is entertain dbair's retarded idea that his tax money is a piggy bank that he can withdraw from so his kids can go to better schools.
 

Cythim

2
Messages
3,919
Reaction score
0
Teachers make decent pay now. 10-20 yrs ago maybe they didnt, but they do now.

And the level of retirement plan pay and employee benefits for them is ridiculous.

I make more with no degree than a teacher makes with a 4 year degree. They pay does not meet the education requirements or difficulty in doing the job. If we want good teachers we have to pay good wages.
 
Top Bottom